With so much of the conspiracy movements blame put on Zionism or socialism
Has it's veil slipped and was designed to weaken the left by attracting the fringe lefties
And fragmenting it from within using those who who might've supported socialist
Politics ,
When you look at when conspiracy theories took off (fashion wise albeit small in the beginning )
It was around the time of high socialist interest again in uk
Didn't David icke make his debut to massive audience via the press and the BBC

Up until that timeframe punks were wearing anarchy badges or socialist red stars
Then These symbols startet being replaced by all sending eyes
And labour the socialist party and union backers drifted right
Was this all planned ? a multi fronted attack by capitalisms elites ?


Back pre conspiracy 80s would ukip be as popular ?
Would Thatcher have tried to impose the bedroom tax or
Or welfare reforms that Cameron has and millibands powerless to stop
I think the socialist minded back then would've literally stör.ed downing street and ousted her
But now the loved up non voting think positive conspiracy enlightened young
Sit back and post online or accept their lot
Worse still actually agree with right wing policy makers on matters of immigration
Finance and culture ,
Our socio political under the conspiracy movement say g massively to the right
(example being the elephant in the room, our actual current state )if this is true
Then it's scarier and most blatant manipulation of mankind we have probably ever seen and far more disturbing than our planet being being invaded by aliens .

It is my considered opinion that any form of party politics is nothing more than a home for the intellectually lazy. Take a think on the wild side and head off into a bit of Marx, Engels and further back to their, initially anyhow, philosophical influence - Hegel.
Then look at the Hegellian dialectic and its 20th century contemporary manifestation....especially with its interpretation by the Frankfurt school boys and how that has been applied as Cultural Marxism.

....in other words, and to save you hundreds of hours of research - party politics, everywhere, in any form and anywhere in the world is nothing more than "The Illusion of Democracy" - the famed prison without bars.

As an old Glaswegian friend of mine would have put it: "Get tae fuck wi ye left right shite"

Perhaps a bit cryptic or meandering around conjecture but here goes ,

1 what made occupy fail
Was it doomed to failure because it lacked a goal
Did it fail because public never got behind it
Did it fail because it was associated with conspiracy theorists
Who themselves were divided on it's origins and agenda
(if any did support it then they were the 9/11 reptile skull and bones club loons so tbey destroyed it's kudos anyway )

By comparison ,

Ukip is popular amongst conspiracy theorists
And any who don't like them are simply. Leftist extremists
In World where there's a left right paradigm
If that makes any sense ,

Far right salutes aren't far right tbey are anti establishment
Immigration isn't racist it's divide and conquer
And welfare state isn't a social necessity it's an example of state interference

On the face of it these seem like basic divides in ideology over what the nwo is
And what is required to halt it
But a cleaner image of whats boing on is perhaps that old trick of wordplay
That if we can't be beaten on subject matter we will simply turn the debate into a shouting match and settle for goal less draw
And proceed with the plan of repeat a lie until it's perceived as the truth because it keeps cropping up
And even if you search online you can see we are correct

(everything I hear that I think of Alex Jones google bombing campaign )

Preying on the reactionist or traditionalist in a fundamentalist (ok enough with the lists )
Is easy if you lend them a ear or shoulder to cry on and hark back to better days
It's also entertaining of you can dress it up in fantasy which speaks to a childlike nature
In a way boring men in grey suits can't or long haired lefties fail to do because you cant see past
that long hair or debauched persona .

The clinical nature of the family unit and hard working adult
Is a very attractive club it encapsulates the mindset of the working class
A class once progressive now looking for reverse gear and pumping the clutch
Thanks to the new craze in town.

Wise Haven wrote:
That's an idea arrived at by assuming those you quoted were dealing in absolutes
Neither was ,
Each was in fact presenting a study combined with theory
To be improved upon and questioned .

Its obvious Marx inspired many forms of socialism
Even national socialism and anarchy both against soviet socialism
So if Marx was an end goal why is modern socialism still in transformation ?

Not since national socialism and the cold war has socialism been under such attack than by conspiracy theories
Never a day (ffs a minute sometimes lol ) does Alex Jones blame socialist politics for every fascist (and that is what capitalism is becoming imho ) policy ,
By doing so he creates a paradox (self fulfilling prophecy left right paradigm )
That actually allows more integration of facist policies by urging his anti nwo fans to crush the loony lefties and commy scum .

I fucking hate well read anarchists. They have it all sussed out. Bakunin this that and the other.

I'm waiting to hear what the remaining 99.9% of people would like to do with their new found autonomy.

The whole notion of a conspiracy/truth movement fills me with despair.
I am of a similar mind to the op minus the politics.
I see this internet phenomena as counter productive. In the good old days we'd take to the streets. Now we take to our keyboards.
I see this as a big problem.

Great topic.

Although I'd like to point out that the 'conspiracy movement' can be traced back at least a couple hundred years.

I don't believe socialism or communism were ever meant to be the end point. As you say Cal, it continues to evolve and now we see the newest manifestation, communitarianism. All politics, left or right just plays a part in the dialectic and all the dialectic does is gently steer the masses towards where the controllers of the dialectic want it to go - which pretty much looks like World Government to me.
As for what you said dubs - I agree, the internet has unfortunately become a containment area for activists who otherwise would use other methods to protest or campaign...probably more effectively than the endless facebook pages and polls which waste precious time that could be better spent elswhere

It's clever, you know there have been studies done by the Republicans in the US, if they encourage young people, poor people or women not to vote they are more likely to get elected.

In the UK the fewer young people, poor people and women who vote, the more likely the Conservatives are to get elected.

It is actually more lucrative for the conservatives to preach against voting, the relics of Empire England will still support their party, just young people and those who want change won't vote, the thing I dislike about the conspiracy theorists is that they complain about the alienation of the masses from power, but the solutions they offer would serve only to increase that distance.

Like much in the Conspiracy worldview it is fundamentally self contradicting.

Socialism or communism as such are very misunderstood and basically never implemented just as capitalism was never implemented so it's a waste of time to infer any difference. The only constant is authoritarianism.

dubmeup wrote:
When I think of conspiracy community it reminds me of that scene in the movie time machine
When in the future everyone sits around and chats as the girl drowns in the river ,

It's a social weapon to dumb down and tranquilise ,
Quite the opposite of what it advocates in fact .

Since the awakening began you'd think we would be stopping shit like atos and anti freedom of movement (immigration ) policies
Not encouraging them ,
Since the awakened started spreading the word we have seen increased intrusions into our personal lives
Via cctv etc
And all the expossing of corruption and NSA spying etc has come not from the conspiracy Community but from those like annon or whistleblowers whom the conspiracy community distrust or simply rubbish ,
You could almost take everything said and reverse it and it makes more sense .

andyh wrote:
It was almost inevitble that concessions would be made creating hybridised socio political systems that apeased those who might seek system change ,
What drove elitists was power and is power ,
Pre age of enlightenment violence and strength was power
Then we learned to empathise and money or wealth became power
No matter what political system arose since that factor remained as the driving force in the world
And led to each system hybridising into confused states

Just as we moved on from the dark ages we need to move on again
Capitalism is destroying this planet ,
Since the industrial revolution helped mankind it's killed off species after species
And since it investors who drive progress via profits passes onto workers etc
It changes only to increase profit
And so does society
In other words we are shackled by our dependence on traditionalism
And our bespoke sociopolitics nation or culture dependant

When we free ourselves from the constraints of profit and see quality of life as the reward instead we have moved on ,
Right now there's a real feeling of supremecist traditionalists vs equality progressives hatching
And that could be the spark to ignite change .

@ Cal
I don't think Capitalism is synonymous with Corporatism. In fact I believe we erroneously call Corporatism, Capitalism; and Capitalism exists with a small c, if it exists at all.

Your final paragraph Cal: "When we free ourselves...... - I just see the same left/right paradigm in operation and when has it ever sparked real change?
Otherwise I am in general agreement with your observations.

Wise Haven wrote:
Agreed.

If we had capitalism then you would be able to trade guns and drugs and anyone could start a bank and there would be no such thing as fractional reserve because it would be called 'fraud'. Simple as.

@ Andy - Spot on re the FRS - the whole thing is a gross fantasy and takes the piss out of humanity.
I think we need to go back to a system where corporations no longer exist unless it is formed under a government charter for a publically beneficial project like infrastructe....Roads/Hospitals etc.
And this crazy bollocks where corporations have the same (nay more) rights than human beings is chucked in the "mad crazy shit" dustbin of history.
We also need to bin Limited liability (Either Private or Public limited liability forms) It just encourages fraud and results in negligence and makes people personally accountable for their torts against people.

That would be a good start for me Andy.

Edited: Made no fucking sense. Brain fuddle today.

Every system in the world using money has corporations
Even capitalist ones ,
A corporate like government is aka fascist

Corporatoins are generators inside society when society becomes
A corporation it becomes fascist .

Capitalism is evolving look at how it's introduced new taxes , laws ,
Methods of investment ,
Most of the world's statesmen are investors
Even in soviet Russia and in anarchist states
This happened happens ,
To say corporatism would disappear if capitalism was adhered to
A corporate state is fascism light ,
Aka police state and millitarian
Where punishment is used to maintain it's existence .
Capitalisms always lived under a shadow .

I think you are onto something. These right wing conspiracy theories play into old taught beliefs and the only people known to have actually proposed a false flag attack was the conservative US military in Operation North Woods. Conservatives dominate the military and intelligence community. If anyone was actually conspiring it is the conservatives to hold onto their old straight while male Christian (right wing) dominated society. They want to win the culture wars, they will do anything. We already know they justified Operation North Woods and Oswald worked for the CIA before he went to Russia and when he came back he hung out with Anti Castro thugs. If they will kill the President and propose terrorist acts on Americans to justify their agenda, what won't they do?

Inversions,
Notice how everything gets turned on it's head without denial
For example ,
If you say you bounced a ball they say the ball flew towards the ground
It's very similar sounding but takes on a different meaning

Without explaining it was thrown by an arm attached to a human
It sounds supernatural ,
Using a similar technique social observations can be inverted also

It's how these guys work it's so simple once you know this shit
You can make them implode on a regular basis until all that's left is ranting maniacs going in circles
Contradicting themselves and making hypocritical statements

Progressives vs traditionalists
The conspiracists are merging with the mainstream
This must've been the plan
Not to get the truth out but to restore traditional values.
The same values our parents and grandparents tried to abandon because they were shit
The far right adopts this traditional ideology as a stepping stone
To impliment it own ideology slowly into politics and society
So slowly and subtly it goes unnoticed or gets laughed off ,
Strawmen rise as gurus seemingly non political they herd people into a politicised
Situation without them realising or if they do realise they embrace it being like minded .

Basically you have to use a word other than capitalism because it is quite simply NOT capitalism.
If a small group of people have an unfair advantage and the rules are weighted in their favour then it is NOT capitalism because it is NOT a free market system.
They are afraid of a truly free market system...I mean...can you imagine being able to setup your own street business with no restrictions whatsoever? Perish the thought!!

How about selling drugs? Growing and selling your own food without having to undergo testing and certification? LOL!

They own the patents and they are coming for all the rest and they'll corner the market and then they'll eat each other until all thats left is a single giant world corporation called 'worldcorp' or summat similar and they'll bail out the govt and pwn the f*cking lot of us.

andyh wrote: Nice and succint^^^ Can't argue with that - Now why cant the other 98% of the population see that instead of constantly bleating about which party has their best interests at heart (BTW its none of them) they should be looking at other solutions?