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TOPIC: Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist

Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 21 Sep 2013 18:50 #41

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dantesrevival wrote:
The Greeks have a long history of communism and anti facism, they were treated very badly by the nazis, they also have so of the most hard core anarchists you could find, they have a proud history of defiance and have a special day call "no" day I think it is, to remember when the people stood up and said no to th junta.

By the way my mum lived in Piraeus for more than a decade, I have a half Greek sister, great place, strong people, fuck GD.

When you say anarchists, am I right in assuming you mean anarcho-syndicalists and or anarcho-communists (groups opposed to private property) ?
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@reptired

Okay, so it wasn't your intent to conflate Communists with those opposing Golden Dawn.

Well, that's cool cuz NaNs do that all the time.

They try to create a false equivalency as a form of passive aggressive fascist apologetics.

But as long as you're not doing that, tha's cool.

I see right/left/centre politics as exactly the same thing, I understand you don't agree with that and you see a distinction.
Perhaps the reason you seem to think I'm a right wing statist of some sort is because you have seen me criticise left wing politics so much on here ( or at least some aspects of it), the reason for that is that it seems to be more prevalent, at least in the threads I'v read.

"Is it voluntary?" is really the only basis for my judgement on peoples ideologies and the resulting actions.
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 21 Sep 2013 18:57 #42

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Reptired wrote:
I see right/left/centre politics as exactly the same thing,

Well I have heard that before. "There is no RW/LW!" "Free yourself of the LW/RW paradigm" and it is invariably followed with how hateful lefties are (which includes everybody from Trotskyites to people in favour of the NHS).

Meanwhile Ron and Rand Paul are just fab. :thumbup:

But back on topic: let's just get one thing clear. This is not a case of fascist vs. communist.

This is collusion of the police and the fascists to crush any and all dissent.
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 21 Sep 2013 19:17 #43

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mikey mikey wrote:
Reptired wrote:
I see right/left/centre politics as exactly the same thing,

Well I have heard that before. "There is no RW/LW!" "Free yourself of the LW/RW paradigm" and it is invariably followed with how hateful lefties are (which includes everybody from Trotskyites to people in favour of the NHS).

Meanwhile Ron and Rand Paul are just fab. :thumbup:

I'm not sure if that's aimed at me but I would not support either of those, Ron is logically and morally inconsistent, he's a career politician, Rand Paul is disgusting, although the only difference in my opinion is Ron's empty rhetoric.
mikey mikey wrote:
But back on topic: let's just get one thing clear. This is not a case of fascist vs. communist.

This is collusion of the police and the fascists to crush any and all dissent.

Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that, as I said I don't see a distinction.
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 21 Sep 2013 22:39 #44

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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 22 Sep 2013 16:49 #45

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Reptired wrote:
dantesrevival wrote:
The Greeks have a long history of communism and anti facism, they were treated very badly by the nazis, they also have so of the most hard core anarchists you could find, they have a proud history of defiance and have a special day call "no" day I think it is, to remember when the people stood up and said no to th junta.

By the way my mum lived in Piraeus for more than a decade, I have a half Greek sister, great place, strong people, fuck GD.

When you say anarchists, am I right in assuming you mean anarcho-syndicalists and or anarcho-communists (groups opposed to private property) ?
mikey mikey wrote:
@reptired

Okay, so it wasn't your intent to conflate Communists with those opposing Golden Dawn.

Well, that's cool cuz NaNs do that all the time.

They try to create a false equivalency as a form of passive aggressive fascist apologetics.

But as long as you're not doing that, tha's cool.

I see right/left/centre politics as exactly the same thing, I understand you don't agree with that and you see a distinction.
Perhaps the reason you seem to think I'm a right wing statist of some sort is because you have seen me criticise left wing politics so much on here ( or at least some aspects of it), the reason for that is that it seems to be more prevalent, at least in the threads I'v read.

"Is it voluntary?" is really the only basis for my judgement on peoples ideologies and the resulting actions.

What does it matter? I would imagine all anarchists are against golden dawn
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 22 Sep 2013 16:58 #46

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Anarcho-syndicalists are not against private property by the way.
They are for a sensible self supporting system, direct democracy and as little involvement with the state as possible.
They are primarily self employed sole traders co-operating in direct equal share of the labour, quite literally ownership of the means of production which is basically the definition of capitalism.... ;)
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 22 Sep 2013 17:34 #47

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andyh wrote:
Anarcho-syndicalists are not against private property by the way.
They are for a sensible self supporting system, direct democracy and as little involvement with the state as possible.
They are primarily self employed sole traders co-operating in direct equal share of the labour, quite literally ownership of the means of production which is basically the definition of capitalism.... ;)

Ok, so would equal collective ownership be what Anarcho-Syndicalists are for?
Perhaps it would be more correct to say they are against individuals owning private property?
Collectivist minarchism?

So for a self employed sole trader then involved in A-S, do they enter all their earnings into a pot which is then divided by the number of people and redistributed that way or are resources only divided between enterprises, i.e. bookshop employees/owners do not divide their property with cake makers?



Maybe you could point me to a resource you think is correct on the subject.....

On Anarchists and Direct Democracy though, it's one or the other if you take the literal meanings.
Popular Government - choosing his rulers

Anarchy - Absence of Rulers

I understand the differences between Direct Democracy and the types most commonly used, in the case of Direct Democracy, the majority, or the majority of those deemed eligible and that also take part , are the Archons .
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 22 Sep 2013 18:14 #48

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Reptired wrote:

Ok, so would equal collective ownership be what Anarcho-Syndicalists are for?
Perhaps it would be more correct to say they are against individuals owning private property?
Collectivist minarchism?
No, none of that either because some workers will earn slightly different amounts to others in any realistic system.
There's length of service considered for example and extra pay for board members when they take their turn once a year.
You can own property outside of Mondragon for example, no issues with that at all, what does happen is that people are motivated to be as inclusive of the group as possible with their spending, eg their own banks and own group housing system, what they put in they get back in the direct shareholder system.
So for a self employed sole trader then involved in A-S, do they enter all their earnings into a pot which is then divided by the number of people and redistributed that way or are resources only divided between enterprises, i.e. bookshop employees/owners do not divide their property with cake makers?
Thats very close to it, but with the caveats mentioned above.
Once they reach pension age they sell their share either back to the group or to new starters.
Every member can only have 1 share and 1 vote and they must sell it when they leave, no-one outside the group can have a share.
Maybe you could point me to a resource you think is correct on the subject.....

Sure, theres a horizon documentary from the 80's about Mondragon, its in the media section here.
On Anarchists and Direct Democracy though, it's one or the other if you take the literal meanings.
Popular Government - choosing his rulers

Anarchy - Absence of Rulers

I understand the differences between Direct Democracy and the types most commonly used, in the case of Direct Democracy, the majority, or the majority of those deemed eligible and that also take part , are the Archons .

In any workable realistic social system there would have to be some kind of organisation, anarcho-syndicalism is merely the closest you can get under the current state of affairs using common sense towards anarchism. Pure anarchism is ofc something only achievable if all of humanity evolved to the point of being Gods.
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 22 Sep 2013 18:27 #49

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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 22 Sep 2013 18:42 #50

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Cheers andyh, that all sounds very reasonable, my perception of Anarcho-Syndicalism was pretty far off, I have definitely confused it with some other system using the Anarcho prefix.
:thumbup:
I'll check out the video when I get a chance to watch it all at once.
Last Edit: 22 Sep 2013 18:43 by Reptired. Reason: spelling
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 22 Sep 2013 22:09 #51

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Just before 1pm yesterday as I arrived at Holland Park, I saw barriers set up on the pavement, and around 40 people, including the inevitable newspaper sellers with their trestle table, waiting there.

I was slightly confused, as the ‘protest pen’ was outside a large white building that appeared to be private flats. Across the road was a walled entrance to the park, and further along was the Greek Embassy itself, a far from salubrious building that looks like down-market (for the area) flats.

After a few minutes, two people crossed the road to stand on the pavement in front of the embassy with a banner that said ‘United Against Fascism’.

Another man started to use string to tie one end of his banner to a metal lamp-post.

Seemingly unaware of their duty under the European Convention on Human Rights, several of the half a dozen police began to tell people they couldn’t protest there, couldn’t tie anything to a lamp-post and so on. Even after some discussion, and dark mutterings about obstruction and criminal damage, neither of which were occurring, they went off and started bothering other demonstrators who were now arriving and taking up position outside the object of their protests, the embassy.

WPC Pymont (whose lapel ID ‘BS 206’ was not related to the BS she was spouting), was telling people that if you hold a protest, you need to notify and get authority from the police. These cops knowledge of the ECHRA was depressingly woeful, and it’s something the Met should really sort out, as it’s a very basic and fundamental part of policing by consent in a democratic society.

A couple of diplomatic protection police turned up and thankfully made more sense, pointing out the need to protect the Embassy itself under the terms of the Vienna Convention, but otherwise seemingly relaxed about the protest outside.

The protest was called by Syriza activists in the UK (Syriza is the main Greek opposition party, a coalition of left, radical, and green groups trying to work together in a united front). It was also promoted and attended by UK socialists and anti-fascists. They were protesting about the killing of anti-fascist musician Pavlos Fyssas. He was murdered by a member of the neo-Nazi right-wing Golden Dawn party which has taken advantage of austerity cuts to promote its intolerant and hatred fuelled agenda and gain popularity in Greece. Greek protests over the murder were met with violence and repression by the State police.

Soon, the protest pen was abandoned to the newspaper vendors, and most of the demo (comprising around 200 people) was outside the embassy.

A small group of around twenty folk, also outside the pen, stood with their banner and chanted on the pavement directly opposite the embassy and separate from the main crowd. These were the KKE, the Greek Communists who are not part of the Syriza coalition.

The Syriza organiser introduced various speakers on a small megaphone, and the crowd was noisy but peaceful, while around half a dozen cops, and four DPG police guarded the embassy.

Just before 2pm, a bicycle sound system rode up, and between speakers, played some popular Greek anti-fascist tunes.

By now, the crowd was spilling out into the road a little, and a couple of constables were trying to direct people back on to the pavement.

This is when policing became problematic. To facilitate the protest and mitigate inconvenience to the public, what they easily could have done would be remove the barriers and allow pedestrians easy access along the pavement opposite and away from the embassy, and post an officer at each end to calm traffic which could have easily and safely negotiated the partly obstructed road at a slow pace.

But no, they just had to throw their weight around. An Inspector turned up, claimed there was ‘serious disruption to the life of the community’ and imposed Section 14 conditions. He informed the man from Syriza that he’d have to move the protest over to the pen (clearly too small for the numbers there), and that he’d be sending in the TSG to use force if necessary.

The organiser used his megaphone to try to achieve the required movement, but the TSG also moved in and threatened people into moving. Many moved off the pavement and part-way across the road, but there was clearly not enough room for everyone on the opposite pavement.

Then around 2.15, the pushing began, and there was an inevitable skirmish, a young girl was arrested, a man became involved and he was violently seized too. They were then both bundled into a police van and taken away.

Eventually, police realised they weren’t going to fit everyone on the pavement and they gave up.

So now, one pavement was still blocked, just a different one! And the noisy crowd was directly outside people’s private flats rather than outside the park gate and the embassy. And the road, which was previously open to traffic, was blocked at one end by police vans, while traffic coming up the other way were turned back by a constable.

All in, the police had managed to provoke two completely unnecessary arrests, and cause much greater disruption to the community than there was before, and impinge on everyone’s right to protest.

Despite all this, the crowd remained defiant, peaceful, and good-natured, and the sound system carried on pumping out tunes as numbers began to lessen over the next hour, until about 3.15 when there seemed a natural consensus to leave.

More pics and video at indyrikki.wordpress.com
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 26 Sep 2013 15:25 #52

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Some antifa went to Golden Dawn's main office yesterday

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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 27 Sep 2013 11:35 #53

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Don't know if this is the right place for this, but it fits....heard anything about this Oi?
Greek government authorities are on alert after a union of Greek army reservists of Special Forces issued a statement urging the Greek administration to step down and make way for a national unity government. As Keep Talking Greece notes, the statement on the union' website included 15 demands - including the resignation of the Greek President - and urged people to gather at the infamous Syntagma Square on Saturday. The statement was interpreted by some as a call to a "coup d'etat" - denied by the union - but prompted Greece's Supreme Court to meet to discuss it.

The 15 Demands...

The announcement of reservists as posted on the website keed-hellas.blogspot.com

"OUR PRIMARY PURPOSE DEFENSE OF OUR COUNTRY.

Reservists Special Forces and the Greek people to implementation of Article 120 of the Constitution requires:

1. IMMEDIATE RESIGNATION OF GOVERNMENT of the impossibility of providing the people as provided in the Constitution at Work (Article 22), health, education, justice, security.

Two. ESTABLISHING A NATIONAL GOVERNMENT PLANS chaired by Supreme Court of personalities on proven outside politics and consultants from the Academy of Athens.

Three. SUSPENSION OF APPLICATION NOTICE MNIMONIAKON laws and within two months, with a ban on participation of all citizens who participated in the governments responsible for the current economic situation.

4. EXAMINING BOARD of the supreme court and accountability for the HOW and WHO led us to Catastrophic Agreement Memorandum. Establishment of Constitutional Court Effective power impose its will.

5. Immediate suspension of dismissal from the State.

6. SUSPENSION further TAX for Family Income up to 25.000 €.

7. SUSPENSION auctions and bank claims until the Completion Audit of Banks of Certified Public Accountants and accountability.

8. Complaint EPACHTHOUS DEBT.

9. PROHIBITION OF SALE PUBLIC PROPERTY, Resume Defence Industries.

10. DIRECT confiscation German (Retail / Business / Office) FULL COMPENSATION until the Greek government for war reparations and occupation loan.

11. BREAK THE LAW ON LIABILITY minister and VOULEFTIKIS ASYLIAS. Regardless of all "THE GREEKS ARE EQUAL BEFORE THE LAW" (Article 4).

12. CONTROL assets of those involved in economic positions of government, prosecute illicit enrichment and Efficiency to the State.

13. OPERATIONAL CONTROL - LICENSING LEGALITY broadcasters and immediate return to the Greek government debts.

14. Protection from Hostile Elongation at AEGEAN, Macedonia, Epirus, Thrace and Cyprus, while suppressing the various groups that see inside.

15. REMOVE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS with a similar promotion in European countries and the server. EXPORT BAN MONEY Over 20% of the taxable income of such.

• The KK PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC INVITED WAIVED as an appropriate time to facilitate desired development of the Greek people.

• THESMOS WARRANTOR all of the above may be the ARMED FORCES OF THE COUNTRY AS POWERFUL ANIDIOTELIS ENTITY TO ANY THREAT.

• Bodies SECURITY REQUIRED TO SECURING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE ABOVE AND SMOOTH MIGRATION IN ACTUAL constitutional legality.

More of the article here.....
www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-26/greece...e-15-demands-or-else

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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 27 Sep 2013 13:29 #54

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I can't find the article they are referring to on the website they source it from :think:
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 27 Sep 2013 13:48 #55

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@Jane

Mention of it in in the Guardian today
The special forces reservist unit whose members appeared in uniform to protest against a visit to Athens by the German chancellor, Angela Merkel said Greece should renege on the conditions attached to an international bailout and set up special courts to prosecute those responsible for its worst financial crisis in modern times. Assets belonging to German companies, individuals or the state should be seized to pay off war reparations amassed during the Nazi occupation.
www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/26/gr...ackslide-coup-threat
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 28 Sep 2013 12:09 #56

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Greece arrests neo-Nazi party leader
ATHENS: Greek police on Saturday arrested the leader of the Golden Dawn neo-Nazi party and hunted for dozens of its members as part of a crackdown launched after the murder of a leftist musician.

Nikos Michaloliakos was arrested early on Saturday along with party spokesman and MP Ilias Kassidiairis, and two other group members, on charges of belonging to a "criminal organisation," a police source said on condition of anonymity.

Arrest warrants were also issued for at least five other Golden Dawn MPs and dozens of members, the source said.
www.dailystar.com.lb/News/International/...r.ashx#axzz2gBVhhaum
Si me puede disparar los conejos, a continuación, puedo disparar fascistas
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 28 Sep 2013 18:25 #57

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About fucking time too. Throw the key away.
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 28 Sep 2013 18:52 #58

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Well the Not-a-Nazis are out in force on the RT comments section.
rt.com/news/greece-golden-dawn-leader-arrest-481/

"Us support Hitler, no! This just looks like a swastika and a Nazi salute!"

and the inevitable "You're a lefty" to all and sundry

:roll:

NaNs: same wherever you go
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 30 Sep 2013 07:10 #59

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The murder last week of hip-hop musician Pavlos Fyssas by fascist thugs has intensified class tensions in Greece. Thousands have taken to the streets on a daily basis to demonstrate against fascist terror and government attacks on social programs, jobs, wages and pensions. The police have responded with violence, attacking demonstrations and protecting the offices of the fascist Golden Dawn organization. There are open discussions in ruling circles of a possible military coup.

Fascism and dictatorship can be prevented only if the working class intervenes into the crisis as a politically independent force on the basis of a genuinely democratic and socialist program. Only on the basis of such a program can the working class mobilize behind it all of the oppressed layers of society. Such a movement cannot permit itself to be subordinated to the state or the bourgeois parties, which ever more aggressively attack the democratic rights and social interests of the workers. It must link the struggle against dictatorship with resistance to social attacks and be directed against the capitalist system itself.

It is necessary to form self-defense committees in neighborhoods and factories to protect workers and immigrants from the fascist gangs and their police accomplices, and prepare strike action.

Golden Dawn, which denies the Holocaust and employs a modified swastika as its symbol, has been deliberately built up by the ruling class. Forces within the state apparatus, the political establishment and big business set up the party to spearhead the fight against the working class. Funded by layers of the super-rich, the party has established paramilitary units, trained by the Army and supported by the police.

The same circles are now discussing plans to establish a military dictatorship. On Wednesday, the Federation of Greek Reservist elite soldiers (KEED) demanded a government of “national necessity” under the “guarantee” of the armed forces. The demands of this association largely coincide with those of the Golden Dawn, including calls for the expulsion of all immigrants and the seizure of German assets in Greece.

The aim of such dictatorial measures is to suppress the continuing resistance by workers to austerity. Class struggles in Greece are reaching the point where the ruling class can no longer impose social attacks by traditional means. To implement the latest dictates of the “troika”—the European Union, International Monetary Fund and European Central Bank—against workers’ opposition, the ruling elite increasingly relies on the army, police and fascist gangs.

Greece poses most starkly the question posed across Europe and internationally. Either the working class breaks politically from all sections of the bourgeoisie, intervenes independently in political life, expropriates the big banks and major corporations, and establishes a workers’ government, or the ruling class will reduce society to barbarism. The crucial question is now the independent mobilization of the working class in political struggle.

Opposing this perspective are the various pseudo-left groups, such as the Coalition of the Radical Left (SYRIZA) and the Communist Party (KKE). Together with the trade unions, they are sabotaging the struggles of workers and subordinating them to the state and the so-called “democratic” parties of the ruling class, chiefly the social democratic PASOK. By politically paralyzing the working class, they create favorable conditions for the most right-wing elements, using nationalist and pseudo-populist demagogy, to gain a hearing among desperate layers of the middle class and sections of the working class itself.

SYRIZA supports the European Union—the bankers’ conspiracy against the European working class—and presents itself as a force for “stability” in alliance with “democratic” forces in the ruling parties, including the right-wing New Democracy. It opposes any independent mobilization of the working class against the bourgeois parties and the system they defend. In this way, it lends its support to the brutal austerity measures directed against the working population.

It has responded to Fyssas’ murder and the subsequent mass protests by stepping up its efforts to present itself to the ruling elite as a reliable defender of the status quo, while seeking to politically disarm the working class in the face of ruling class preparations for dictatorship. At a recent meeting in Vienna, SYRIZA leader Alexis Tsipras declared that the armed forces and the police “are democratized and pose no threat to democracy.” A few days later, plans for a military coup and further evidence of the cooperation between Golden Dawn and the police came to light.

Calls for a state ban of Golden Dawn have essentially the same content. Such a ban would not weaken the fascists, but ultimately strengthen them. It would give the state apparatus, which is profoundly compromised by its relations with the neo-Nazis, greater powers to act against political organizations and against the working class.

SYRIZA’s main concern is to stabilize Greek capitalism and preserve its relations with the European Union. Tsipras recently called for an alliance against the fascists with the ruling New Democracy, which has innumerable links to Golden Dawn.

Similar policies are being advanced by the other pseudo-left organizations in Greece, which speak for the same privileged middle-class milieu and differ only on details. The Communist Party (KKE) seeks to stir up illusions that the trade unions can lead the fight against the fascists and calls for a “popular front”. The state capitalist SEK has joined the chorus of those demanding the banning of Golden Dawn.

All these groups speak for wealthy layers of the petty-bourgeoisie, such as the trade union bureaucracy, which fear an independent movement of workers far more than state repression and fascist terror. By sabotaging the struggles of workers and subordinating them to the state, however, they are paving the way for the rise of fascism.

The political mobilization of the working class against the threat of fascism and dictatorship requires a struggle to expose the reactionary role of the pseudo-left tendencies. This is essential for establishing the political independence of the working class from all sections of the bourgeoisie and developing the struggle for workers’ power and socialism.
www.globalresearch.ca/greece-fascist-gol...ppress-working-class
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Golden Dawn kill Greek antifascist hip hop artist 30 Sep 2013 12:53 #60

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Al Jazeera now have a long and soft interview with BNP leader Nick Griffin. And guess who he is supporting.
thank you St Jude for favours granted
Last Edit: 30 Sep 2013 13:13 by mikey mikey.
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