they need computers so they can use their "tv station" to upload youtube videos.
but they also want to punish slaves by supporting apple.

Magpie wrote:
Innit?!

"We now need triple the estimated start-up costs oh and we never thought to include computers in the initial costs or the revised ones so if there are any of those going for free....?"

they are asking people to upload their home made programmes they want shown on the peoples voice channel to youtube password protected so that others cannot see.

So what shall we make?

An expose of tolerated racism on tinterwebz forums?

that would be a easy one to evidence - not sure that it would make it to actual broadcast though.... call me cycnical and all that.

I do find it interesting that they are going to be filling up the channel with youtube vids makes the whole london studio thing seem a little...well...redundant.

thoreau wrote:
Thought's also crossed my mind. To make it onto the channel though it would have to be so subtle it would be a waste of time and energy.... so might as well make it less subtle and slap it on Youtube where the world can access it, not just TPV subscribers.

Oh and I know I said I'd fiddle with nowt when the forum's signed over to me but Vox Populi is a great forum name

We could give Batou his own chat show

We could have a Sanctum Zone/Vox Populi (I don't see me letting this one drop for a while ) 'official' Youtube channel, not bother raising over quarter of a million quid and just nick stuff of interest that already exists, or of course make something original. Have a sticky thread where we submit videos and a pre-determined number of 'Thank You's means it's added to the 'official' channel?!

oioioi wrote:
Yeah, ok.....

Done.

Ish.

A new thread may be in order

Back to slagging TPV people

feather wrote: Well fuck! Talk about syncronicity ...


I was aware that they parted ways with Current TV recently when the Qataris bought it up from Al Gore.
I know who I'd rather give my cash to.

feather wrote:
Hammer-chewers? A new one on me! Have to Google that...

Magpie wrote: https://sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/General/92983-the-people-s-voice-the-facts-of-life.html?start=80#150120

I can only assume that david means well, but it's clear to everyone that both David and those advising him are terribly inexperienced and literally have no idea how much it costs or what is required practically speaking to either get a tv station started or to keep it going as a viable entity.

I can't and won't condemn him at this point for under-estimating expenses, and I don't think he is motivated by an impersonal profit motive. It simply means that he's going to be taking his lumps and making a ton of mistakes along the way.

It is ironic that he continues to plead for more of the illusory money being created out of thin air by the private banking cartel, and yes, this venture does resort to using, perhaps even exploiting some of the same ol' fear based tropes spewed by televangelists. These are legitimate observations and criticisms. Nonetheless, I do believe he is trying to do the right thing and I for one won't condemn him for being less than perfect or for being all too fallible. All of us are that.

The webmaster of the DIF refers to it's members as "traffic". Sounds like a breadhead term to me considering all the adverts the site is strewn with...
It's also ironic, if not a little sick that David Icke uses extremely dodgy and manipulative psychology to extract cash from his followers, as highlighted already in this thread. He purports to be against all that...

It's also ironic, if not a little sick that he wants Apple computers. Apple having been regularly shown to exploit workers in the developing World to shocking extremes. He purports to be against all that...

Icke is behaving in the exact same manner that those he claims to be freeing us from do...

It stems from a core, major ethical, philosophical, political and analytical dilemma that david, much less his support staff, have never quite come to terms with, and may never be able to address sufficiently.

To put it simply, david does not understand the dialectic as an analytical and political tool. He has been asked, and even taunted many times before: 'he will be asking for more of the phony money he decries.' To my knowledge, david has never addressed this criticism, and for sone simple reason: HE CAN'T. He doesn't have the analytical tools or prowess at this point.

I'm not saying it's impossible, as a matter of fact, it is very doable and quite easy. The problem with david is that he gets stuck in these extreme points of view which he can't extricate himself from. As in:

1. "All money is phoney and created out of thin air! It's a fraud. Now gimme a million or so of those phony dollars!!"

2. "Apple is a tool of the NSA! Now gimme a dozen state of the art mac's!"

3. "I never attended university. Thank god! All professors and university students are wankers and everything they teach is bollocks! Be sure to buy my dvd lecture set at oxford university!"

David has to find a way either OUT of these contradictions, or conversely, to accept and even embrace them. A dialectical implosion, literally.

Unfortunately for David, Marx and Hegel and critical theory and philosophy: all bollocks! Too bad they could teach the old dog a trick or two.
knobmeup wrote:

crumbs, you dont half sound like mike there
absolutely agree though, cognitive dissonance innit.

solar_deity wrote:
I pointed out some crossovers between Icke's rhetorical method and Hegel/Kant's on the Difor way back.
Went down like a lead balloon.
I actually don't see a contradiction with point 1, money is fraud, gimme some money, the major holes in the philosophy come in with the quantum mysticism/you create your own reality bullshit.

"Everyone controls their own reality, I need you to give me money."

Icke clearly doesn't believe his own BS, and who could blame him.

Well now we are back to debating the validity and utility of the law of attraction. It's an ongoing discussion. A project really both theoretical yet ultimately practical in nature.

But back on point, what I will try to point out is that david is indeed stuck in a whole series of contradictions, and that there's nothing wrong with that. Instead of trying to sidestep this thorny issue, his only way out is to embrace and own these contradictions. It's quite simple really however ironic and counter-intuitive.

If he could just set aside his moral outrage at the system for just a moment, he could better understand how the implements of oppression could be utilized and exploited for it's opposite. But then again, david's outrage is what drives him and makes all of his work possible.

knobmeup wrote: I'm not per se saying such criticisms are unreasonable. But I am using a Dell laptop to type this, fully aware of the conditions in which Dell products are manufactured:

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/865...s-claims-report.html

Even if they don't use what are officially categorised as 'sweatshops' (which they do), they will definitely exploit labour and pay their workers an utterly desultory wage.

Technically given my views on the subject, I shouldn't use Dell products. But you would find it extremely hard to buy a computer, even if you attempted to assemble it yourself from its constituent parts, that wasn't produced in sweatshops. So I could oppose morally to using a computer. That's the end of my work, which means I'd have to find a job. Which would mean I'd have to find one that wasn't morally reprehensible, where I wasn't blindly serving corporate or state interests, otherwise it would be pointless. Which would be quite difficult.

That's before you go into the fact that your choice with regard to phoneline is a company that hacked dead people's phones, a company that is involved in profiting from the privatisation of the NHS, and a company that has been involved in some pernicious conduct with regard to Syria. That's your choice, or no phone line. So for me, I choose to take the lesser of two evils, but for me I don't see a 'clean' choice open to me.

Again, I'm not saying some criticism isn't legitimate, just that as I've said previously there isn't any 'clean' money out there to chase after, and we're all to a greater or lesser extent dependent now on this fascist economic system, whether we like it or not. And I do everything I can to minimise this, and I'm quite sure you do more than me, but ultimately it is impossible not to be sucked into it on some level unless there is a mass grass roots re-organisation of the way society operates. No-one can live 'off the grid', I have encountered people who think that they can, but it's impossible. Similarly, you would have a very hard job producing a television programme, let alone entire channel, without utilising products produced in sweatshops, or at the very least by heavily exploited labour.

Other budgeting issues are a different kettle of fish, but I can't be too critical of Icke for using Apple products given that without using either them or some similar product there will be no TV channel whatsoever.