Rick wrote:
G'day Rick.

Your original claim is as follows ...

"May have been actual iso­lated inci­dents of rouge police doing some crim­i­nal things against citizens,the mil­i­tary as a whole and the indi­vid­ual soldier’s involved per­formed per­fectly with the high­est of values."

... so maybe it's just me and I don't see any mention that you made about Katrina". Maybe you could point out to me exactly where you made mention of it in your claim, or within the text that you quoted in responding to with your claim.

As to the "anti American propaganda" comment ...

prop·a·gan·da/ˌpräpəˈgandə/
Noun:

1. Information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
2. The dissemination of such information as a political strategy.

... perhaps you don't comprehend the meaning of the word that you are using. The above definition gives you the meaning, and as anyone can clearly see, neither is the information that I posted 'misleading' nor 'a political strategy'.

Once again, you simply hand wave away the facts posted and still do not present any facts to support your original claim.

You may not have read all of what I posted, and therefore missed out on recognising that I also posted material about the UK military as well as the Australian military. Perhaps it might have been the 'stars and stripes' glasses that you appear to be wearing that distorted your view. Who knows ?

Whatever the cause of your unwillingness to support your original claim is, the fact still remains that you haven't supported it and instead resorted with ad hominem against me in response to the facts that I posted.

Here's a little tip for you, take it or leave it as you will ... the supporting of a claim made by presenting relevant information / facts goes a long way in others determining whether or not what you claim is reasonable, true, or utter bullshit.

Hexhammer wrote:
Thanks,for that your cool in my book
The enemy of the allied forces in WW2 had dramatically more severe torture

And if you look at those photos they seem fake and no actual hands on physical abuse was displayed,everything if you notice was after the fact,even the sitting on a individual could have been staged,no faces were shown,and the female was pointing at a dead person the poster of those images in my opinion has a agenda and possibly sympathetic to the enemy forces in my opinion, and thought the point would be made from shock value, I don't buy into that.

Oh hei, Rick, I'm really not here to have a fight but to have an discussion.

@Rick,

Can you please explain what is patriotic about invading foreign lands which aren't even your neighbors and offer no threat? Can you tell me what is patriotic about targeting civilians domestic or foreign? Can you tell me how a cop beating the crap out of a member of the public is reasonable? Protect and serve!? Who exactly are they protecting and serving?

If you look into military trends you will notice that there is a shift away from conventional national armies. The military is becoming privateised and increasingly coalition troops serve under banners like the UN. UN troops in the UK or US won't have the same allegiance to the population as national troops. There is a very good reason for them building up an international force of mercenaries.

Do you seriously think that the people running the show in the UK or the USA are patriots and act in the national interest?

Frog wrote:

Rick wrote:
Oh, by the way, Finland was on the side by nazis in WWII... Some of the Finnish long distance patrols had the craziest evil fuckers in them.

But now it's getting bit offtopic, I'll get back onto this later on.

Do you seri­ously think that the peo­ple run­ning the show in the UK or the USA are patri­ots and act in the national interest?

Yes,had to write that again the bold messed up on me,if you don't believe so try and see how well your treated in their country.

Rick, could you address the rest of Frogs post... There's quite a few points there.

And one last thing for now, murder is murder, no matter how somebody tries to justify it, be the reason what ever patriotism or what ever... The crimes the soldiers commit by killing 'the enemy' are just that, crimes. Nobody can change that truth, and quiet acceptance for murder in the name of patriotism is sick and inhuman.

Rick wrote:

Hexhammer wrote:
No I choose not to

Denial much? ignorance is bliss... or at least it's patriotic.

Rick wrote:
G'day Rick.

You've got to be fucking kidding.

What went on at Abu Ghraib is well documented. There were court martials in relationship to it (though no one above the rank of sergeant funnily enough) ... which means that the American military prosecuted their own soldiers in relationship to what occurred at Abu Ghraib.

Yet you "don't buy into that".

Seriously, do some research about it before you continue commenting about something that you obviously know fuck all about. Here's a couple of documentaries about Abu Ghraib ...

Errol Morris examines the incidents of abuse and torture of suspected terrorists at the hands of U.S. forces at the Abu Ghraib prison.

Award winning documentary filmmaker Rory Kennedy explores the human and political consequences of one of the most bitter scandals of the war in Iraq in this feature. In the 1960′s, a prison was built in Abu Ghraib, an Iraqi city west of Baghdad, and during the regime of Saddam Hussein it became a center of torture and abuse where political dissidents were subjected to agonizing punishment or death.

Following the United States invasion of Iraq in 2003, the prison was taken over by American military authorities, and was used as a holding facility for prisoners of war and suspected terrorists captured by U.S. forces.

The prison's reputation as a site of widespread abuse rose again when journalists discovered photographs of Iraqi prisoners being tortured and humiliated in an ugly variety of ways by American soldiers, a scandal which had a major impact on international thinking about the war.

Ghosts of Abu Ghraib offers an in-depth look at the story behind the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, featuring interviews with observers on both sides of the national divide. Ghosts of Abu Ghraib received its world premiere at the 2007.

... I also suggest watching Winter Soldier ...

For three days in 1971, former US soldiers who were in Vietnam testify in Detroit about their war experiences. Nearly 30 speak, describing atrocities personally committed or witnessed, telling of inaccurate body counts, and recounting the process of destroying a village. The atrocities are casual, seem routine, and are sanctioned or committed by officers. Images from the war illustrate the testimony; there's a side discussion among veterans about racism and a couple of interviews about the soldiers' self-realization. The testimony appears in the US Congressional Record on April 6 and 7, 1971. A "winter soldier" contrasts with Paine's "summer soldier and sunshine patriot."

www.wintersoldierfilm.com/

... or you can keep your head stuck in the sand and remain ignorant. Your choice.

Rick wrote:
I have been there and not as a tourist! Jackson, MS32.298691 -90.180489, Meridian, MS32.365082 -88.703079, N Front St, Memphis, TN 38103, Dallas, TX32.778149 -96.795403 - most of the people I socialised with in the evenings were factory workers. Throughout the day my time was spent with middle and upper management including CEO's. Quite a few of the people were Vietnam vets. especially the security and drivers.

Most of the people in the bars and clubs weren't speaking highly of the political system or the police - that was in the early 90's they were discussing conspiracy although it was wasted on me at the time.

The Indian reservation and the huge casino was one of the most depressing things I have personally witnessed. I never used one dollar of the complimentary chips I was given as part of the VIP tour.

In my travels there were areas of extreme poverty which isn't the impression given in Hollywood movies or the news and shows broadcast in the UK.

I left America with the impression that it was all a facade, just like most of the stores on main street, which were little more than sheds with false fronts and fancy entrances.

As for the people they were just like people everywhere most of them are just trying to make it through the day without too much hassle. I got on OK with the people I met although things were a bit dodgy a couple of times in the early hours out on the streets in Memphis and on one occasion at a bar in Jackson (I don't think they liked our line dancing piss take).

I left the states with no intention of going back. Not that I'm a fan of traveling anyway.

So what did you make of your trip to the UK?

It's bad enough to invade a country for greed and kill innocent people but to torture as well! there are some sick individuals in that US army.

When they go back home on civvy street do they carry on their sick behaviour?

Those sick individuals need to be ostracized from their communities back in the USA,who knows what they could be capable of?

And this is not an anti USA response but an anti psycho response,Most citizens are the same world over want a peaceful and happy life without torturing people.