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TOPIC: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms.

Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 16 Dec 2012 22:56 #1

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Do you think the law and parents should stop allowing young people access to firearms?

After the shootings recently in the USA and also after reading the stats bellow i think something has to be done about youngsters getting their hands on guns.

In 1999, 3,385 children and youth ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. This includes homicides, suicides, and unintentional injuries.
This is equivalent to about 9 deaths per day, a figure commonly used by journalists.
The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:

214 unintentional
1,078 suicides
1,990 homicides
83 for which the intent could not be determined
20 due to legal intervention

In addition to firearm deaths, we need to look at how many children and young people are hurt by guns. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports that in 1997, 2,514 children aged 0-14 were non-fatally injured by guns. In the same year, 30,225 young people aged 15-24 sustained nonfatal firearm injuries. These statistics include suicide attempts and both intentional and accidental shootings.

According to the CDC, the rate of firearm deaths among children under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. American children are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die in a firearm accident than children in these other countries.

www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 16 Dec 2012 23:08 #2

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Just curious why you posted stats from 1997 that's 15 years ago...

Currently 30,000 people a year die buy guns in America and 100,000 people a year get shot and survive.

Chicago and Philly alone combine for 1000 deaths each year mostly inner city kids from the ghetto.

Coaching high school basketball for the last 4 years, I have had to deal with alot of kids getting shot.

So my opinion is NOBODY should have guns...fucking NOBODY.... :nono:

There should also be No War, No Tank's, No Soldiers, No Missiles, No bombs, No Drones and No Army

But there are already 300 million guns in America so it is what it is...

:facepalm:
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Last Edit: 16 Dec 2012 23:12 by ...........
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 17 Dec 2012 12:13 #3

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.......... wrote:
Just curious why you posted stats from 1997 that's 15 years ago...

Currently 30,000 people a year die buy guns in America and 100,000 people a year get shot and survive.

Chicago and Philly alone combine for 1000 deaths each year mostly inner city kids from the ghetto.

Coaching high school basketball for the last 4 years, I have had to deal with alot of kids getting shot.

So my opinion is NOBODY should have guns...fucking NOBODY.... :nono:

There should also be No War, No Tank's, No Soldiers, No Missiles, No bombs, No Drones and No Army

But there are already 300 million guns in America so it is what it is...

:facepalm:

When i googled stats for this subject the link i provided was one of the first websites that appeared.

The gun ownership in America stems from the second amendment which gives the individual the right to keep and bear arms,this law was written just after the battle for independence.As far as i am aware the USA got independence through violent means and weapons were justifiable if history is to be believed at that time period.

The question is "is the law valid and reasonable today"

To many young people gain access to weapons in the USA and it's basically the parents fault for not securing the weapons in a locked gun cabinet.

Having said that if people don't wish to give up their right to bear arms and are to lazy to keep their weapons securely locked away then they will have to accept the fact that every now and again a mass shooting will occur and young people will take their own lives with these weapons due to the law that was originally designed to protect people and irresponsible gun owning parents.
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Last Edit: 17 Dec 2012 12:14 by humanspirit.
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 17 Dec 2012 12:42 #4

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access to weapons for what purpose?
oh you mean for shooting everyone.
yes that's 100% the parents fault isn't it.
no no wait, its the guns fault. bad gun.

if someone wants a gun they will get one. for a school shooting or a hold up, you think they just check mum and dads dresser? no guns here, i guess we'll just be good boys instead of murderizing people. thank goodness it was just a fleeting thought spur of the moment choice.

people should be responsible, AND teach kids to be responsible and respect what guns can do, not as toys or cool props.

cops and military kill kids every day. i saw people mention waco as an example. 25 kids murdered by the gov.
do you see, its not guns, its people that are the problem.
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Violence is not the answer, it is the question. the answer is yes.
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 17 Dec 2012 22:11 #5

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The culture puts emphasis on the individual and greed.
Life has little value or meaning.
Violence is the only way to get what you want.
The govt gives pretty much that example by saying they're the cops of the world and going round bringing their violent freedom to everybody.
The TV is full of violence, the computer games are full of violence, the politics are full of violence, even the religions full of bloody violence so its hardly surprising the people are going to be messed up.

The UK isn't that much different, they just use knives instead.
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 19 Dec 2012 22:25 #6

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I have lived in America since 2006 and neither my 4 year old or one year old have touched a real gun. I only touched one which belonged to an in law. My family has not been shot so far. Some places have bigger problems with guns than other places. Some families are gun families who buy them and shoot them and read magazines about them. I think the more you are around guns the more likely you will die by them. They say if you see a gun in act one of a play expect it to go off in act two or something.

If guns were not so freely available it would be great but so many people go hard for guns sadly.
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 21 Dec 2012 06:40 #7

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When I was growing up I knew lots of kids that "had guns".

But it was in the context of "going huntin' with my dad" that they were used. They didn't keep them in their rooms nor did they have ready access to them! A father would get his 10 or 12* year old son a hunting rifle and teach him how to use it, FOR HUNTING. There was a lot of respect and responsibility that came with that privilege!! And I'd NEVER heard of any of my friends or other kids that would have/use guns outside of taking down deer or javelina when off hunting with their dads. It just didn't happen. But this was the 80's. A whole LOT didn't happen back then that does now.

Sure, parents are to blame SOME of the time but you have to look at the culture and see what other contributing factors there are that go into making kids behave the way they do. When I was a kid I didn't know ANYBODY that took Ritalin or any other kind of pharmacopoison but that certainly ain't the case nowadays!! You can't throw a rock in any fucking direction without hitting a teenager on one kind of prescribed bullshit "medication" or another. Think maybe there's a connection between that and young folks goin fuckin crazy?? I sure as Hell do!! Not saying that that's THE main culprit but it's one to take serious note of, that's for damn sure!!!

So yeah, I still believe that some kids and young adults (that can PROVE they can be Trusted!!) should have closely monitored access to certain kinds of firearms. Namely kids going hunting with fathers/adult family members. Why should decent, level-headed and responsible people have to pay for the mistakes of careless, short-sighted and over-emotionally impulsive idiots that can't seem to get/keep their shit together?? They shouldn't.

*it may have been more like 12 and older, can't remember what the allowance was back then.
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 24 Dec 2012 19:02 #8

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I agree with phemohilia's post up there ^, and also...

If it's possible for me in the future to buy a gun, I will.

Yes, I do agree that life should be respected, however, if someone breaks in this house, it's pretty obvious that the person that breaks in does NOT respect life at all. What, am I expected to go down without a fight? No!

Does this mean, that if/when I buy a gun, I will go out and shoot random people on the street? No, of course not. But I will do whatever it takes to protect my loved ones, if someone breaks in the house or does something stupid.
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 24 Dec 2012 19:04 #9

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Kumatora wrote:
I agree with phemohilia's post up there ^, and also...

If it's possible for me in the future to buy a gun, I will.

Yes, I do agree that life should be respected, however, if someone breaks in this house, it's pretty obvious that the person that breaks in does NOT respect life at all. What, am I expected to go down without a fight? No!

Does this mean, that if/when I buy a gun, I will go out and shoot random people on the street? No, of course not. But I will do whatever it takes to protect my loved ones, if someone breaks in the house or does something stupid.


No,no,no,nooo...you're meant to call 911 and leg it round the house for half an hour and not get shot until the cops turn up.
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 24 Dec 2012 19:30 #10

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andyh wrote:
No,no,no,nooo...you're meant to call 911 and leg it round the house for half an hour and not get shot until the cops turn up.
Actually, when our house got burgled the police told us at a later date that they knew who it was but couldn't get enough evidence to prosecute them. I fear I may have been critical of our wonderful boys and girls in blue in the past, so make of that what you will.
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 24 Dec 2012 19:38 #11

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andyh wrote:
Kumatora wrote:
I agree with phemohilia's post up there ^, and also...

If it's possible for me in the future to buy a gun, I will.

Yes, I do agree that life should be respected, however, if someone breaks in this house, it's pretty obvious that the person that breaks in does NOT respect life at all. What, am I expected to go down without a fight? No!

Does this mean, that if/when I buy a gun, I will go out and shoot random people on the street? No, of course not. But I will do whatever it takes to protect my loved ones, if someone breaks in the house or does something stupid.


No,no,no,nooo...you're meant to call 911 and leg it round the house for half an hour and not get shot until the cops turn up.

:D

I remember reading this article a bit ago:

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/01/05/9968...killed-intruder?lite
Nn 07kdahl Shoot 120105.vembedlarge456


No charges for teen widow who killed intruder

By NBC News, msnbc.com staff and news services

Authorities don't plan to file charges against an 18-year-old Oklahoma widow who fatally shot a New Year's Eve intruder at her house while she had a 911 dispatcher on the phone.
However, the intruder's alleged accomplice has been charged with murder in connection with the death.
Sarah McKinley was in her mobile home with her 3-month-old son on New Year's Eve in Blanchard, Okla., when Justin Martin, 24, broke in with a large hunting knife, NBC station KFOR reported.
When she asked if she was allowed to shoot the intruder if he broke through the door, a 911 operator told her, "Well, you have to do whatever you can do to protect yourself ... I can't tell you that you can do that but you do what you have to do to protect your baby."
Oklahoma law allows the use of deadly force against intruders, and prosecutors said McKinley clearly acted in self-defense. According to court documents, Martin was holding a knife when he died.
"Our initial review of the case doesn't indicate she violated the law in any way," Assistant District Attorney James Walters told The Oklahoman newspaper.
Prosecutors have charged his alleged accomplice, 29-year-old Dustin Louis Stewart, with first-degree murder. According to authorities, Stewart was with Martin but ran away from McKinley's home after hearing the gunshots.
"When you're engaged in a crime such as first-degree burglary and a death results from the events of that crime, you're subject to prosecution for it," Walters said.

Barricaded door

Stewart was arraigned Wednesday and was being held in the Grady County jail. A bond hearing was set for Thursday. His attorney, Stephen Buzin, did not immediately respond to a message left at his office Wednesday night.

According to court documents, Martin and Stewart might have been looking for prescription drugs used by McKinley's husband Kenneth, 58, who died on Christmas Day after being hospitalized with complications from lung cancer.
McKinley said it took the men about 20 minutes to get through her door, which she had barricaded with a couch.

McKinley told KFOR-TV the slain intruder had also showed up at her door on Dec. 29, the day of her husband's funeral.
When he came again on New Year's Eve, she said she grabbed her son and "walked over and got the 12-gauge, went in the bedroom and got the pistol and put the bottle in his mouth and then I called 911," she told KOCO.
The 911 operator asked McKinley to confirm that her doors were locked. The young mother said yes, and asked if it was all right for her to shoot the man if he were to enter her house, KOCO reported.
McKinley said she asked the dispatcher, "I've got two guns in my hand -- is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door? I'm here by myself with my infant baby, can I please get a dispatcher out here immediately?"
'I shot him'
The 911 conversation lasted for 21 minutes. Then the door gave in. Martin charged at McKinley with his knife, but she said she shot at him before he could get to her.
"I waited till he got in the door. They said I couldn't shoot him until he was inside the house. So I waited until he got in the door and then I shot him," McKinley told KFOR.
The decision to shoot was difficult, she told KFOR. "There's nothing more dangerous than a mother with her baby. But I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for him."
The Associated Press, NBC News and msnbc.com staff contributed to this report.
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 24 Dec 2012 19:42 #12

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Kumatora wrote:
andyh wrote:
Kumatora wrote:
I agree with phemohilia's post up there ^, and also...

If it's possible for me in the future to buy a gun, I will.

Yes, I do agree that life should be respected, however, if someone breaks in this house, it's pretty obvious that the person that breaks in does NOT respect life at all. What, am I expected to go down without a fight? No!

Does this mean, that if/when I buy a gun, I will go out and shoot random people on the street? No, of course not. But I will do whatever it takes to protect my loved ones, if someone breaks in the house or does something stupid.


No,no,no,nooo...you're meant to call 911 and leg it round the house for half an hour and not get shot until the cops turn up.

:D

I remember reading this article a bit ago:

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/01/05/9968...killed-intruder?lite
Nn 07kdahl Shoot 120105.vembedlarge456


No charges for teen widow who killed intruder

By NBC News, msnbc.com staff and news services

Authorities don't plan to file charges against an 18-year-old Oklahoma widow who fatally shot a New Year's Eve intruder at her house while she had a 911 dispatcher on the phone.
However, the intruder's alleged accomplice has been charged with murder in connection with the death.
Sarah McKinley was in her mobile home with her 3-month-old son on New Year's Eve in Blanchard, Okla., when Justin Martin, 24, broke in with a large hunting knife, NBC station KFOR reported.
When she asked if she was allowed to shoot the intruder if he broke through the door, a 911 operator told her, "Well, you have to do whatever you can do to protect yourself ... I can't tell you that you can do that but you do what you have to do to protect your baby."
Oklahoma law allows the use of deadly force against intruders, and prosecutors said McKinley clearly acted in self-defense. According to court documents, Martin was holding a knife when he died.
"Our initial review of the case doesn't indicate she violated the law in any way," Assistant District Attorney James Walters told The Oklahoman newspaper.
Prosecutors have charged his alleged accomplice, 29-year-old Dustin Louis Stewart, with first-degree murder. According to authorities, Stewart was with Martin but ran away from McKinley's home after hearing the gunshots.
"When you're engaged in a crime such as first-degree burglary and a death results from the events of that crime, you're subject to prosecution for it," Walters said.

Barricaded door

Stewart was arraigned Wednesday and was being held in the Grady County jail. A bond hearing was set for Thursday. His attorney, Stephen Buzin, did not immediately respond to a message left at his office Wednesday night.

According to court documents, Martin and Stewart might have been looking for prescription drugs used by McKinley's husband Kenneth, 58, who died on Christmas Day after being hospitalized with complications from lung cancer.
McKinley said it took the men about 20 minutes to get through her door, which she had barricaded with a couch.

McKinley told KFOR-TV the slain intruder had also showed up at her door on Dec. 29, the day of her husband's funeral.
When he came again on New Year's Eve, she said she grabbed her son and "walked over and got the 12-gauge, went in the bedroom and got the pistol and put the bottle in his mouth and then I called 911," she told KOCO.
The 911 operator asked McKinley to confirm that her doors were locked. The young mother said yes, and asked if it was all right for her to shoot the man if he were to enter her house, KOCO reported.
McKinley said she asked the dispatcher, "I've got two guns in my hand -- is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door? I'm here by myself with my infant baby, can I please get a dispatcher out here immediately?"
'I shot him'
The 911 conversation lasted for 21 minutes. Then the door gave in. Martin charged at McKinley with his knife, but she said she shot at him before he could get to her.
"I waited till he got in the door. They said I couldn't shoot him until he was inside the house. So I waited until he got in the door and then I shot him," McKinley told KFOR.
The decision to shoot was difficult, she told KFOR. "There's nothing more dangerous than a mother with her baby. But I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for him."
The Associated Press, NBC News and msnbc.com staff contributed to this report.

If you shoot someone in your own home in the UK then you go to jail for murder. :p

Obviously the brits need to take lessons from mcauley culkin or whatever he's called :D
Now he can run round a house for half an hour and avoid getting shot....I'll start strategically placing the kids toys on the stairs right now...God help me in the morning when I get up though lol :D
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 24 Dec 2012 20:31 #13

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It's not a popular opinion but I see having guns in every home to sort out burglars as going 180 degrees in the wrong direction.
I would much rather see energy focused on what is causing those people to go out and break into people's homes in the first place.

Remove the need/incentive/motivation for people to break in, you remove the need for folk to arm themselves for protection.

A debate which just isn't being had anywhere...
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 24 Dec 2012 20:39 #14

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dubmeup wrote:
It's not a popular opinion but I see having guns in every home to sort out burglars as going 180 degrees in the wrong direction.
I would much rather see energy focused on what is causing those people to go out and break into people's homes in the first place.

Remove the need/incentive/motivation for people to break in, you remove the need for folk to arm themselves for protection.

A debate which just isn't being had anywhere...

The incentive is ofc money based.
Seeing as very few people want to address that I fail to see how this is going to be addressed either :)
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 24 Dec 2012 20:40 #15

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Absolutely andy. Yet again the discussion happening everywhere is of how to deal with symptoms, not the disease.
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 24 Dec 2012 20:42 #16

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dubmeup wrote:
Absolutely andy. Yet again the discussion happening everywhere is of how to deal with symptoms, not the disease.

You can't talk about that, it leads to circle domes and TVP and communism and all that.
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 24 Dec 2012 20:47 #17

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I'll keep talking about it, keep getting shouted down, keep doing what I can to live what I talk and improve on my own embodiment of what I talk, keep getting shouted down, and so on and so on....Just like yourself, the app and others...Maybe oneday, just maybe, people will go oh yeah, I get it now. :dunno:
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Re: Should children and young adults in the USA have access to firearms. 24 Dec 2012 21:14 #18

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dubmeup wrote:
I'll keep talking about it, keep getting shouted down, keep doing what I can to live what I talk and improve on my own embodiment of what I talk, keep getting shouted down, and so on and so on....Just like yourself, the app and others...Maybe oneday, just maybe, people will go oh yeah, I get it now. :dunno:

I wish I had your optimism lol. :p
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