Take away the polliticians who don't really give a dam for long enough and put the people together and they would probably shake hands and start acting like human beings once again. All walls were built to fall, if they took them down willingly, job done.

Have you read the Hamas charter wub? Its ALL to do with religion...

here's a snippet...

The Apprentice wrote: I feel this way too.

The Apprentice wrote:
Organised religion builds the walls, creates the divisions, causes the problems.

diamondgeezer wrote:
I agreed with mikey earlier that theres some cultural aspects to it all too.
Religion on its own doesn't address everything.

diamondgeezer wrote:
I can't argue with that generally.
But in this case I believe that marching into a country of people and deciding it wasn't there's anymore before starting to systematically take it for yourself and in the process treat the people no better than animals, caused this particular problem.

I don't disagree with mikey on that point either andy.

But the reality is that organised religion is the problem, not the solution. The evidence is everywhere.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
There is a pattern emmerging that shows that any pollitical or religious debate, in a world where people are basically trying to justify their positions in the unjust paradigm, they helped develope by propping it up and each other by continually supporting these droughts, the same goes for forums that are continually being split up by perfect strangers in the same model justification.

And in smaller numbers in illusion can be controlled far more easily, but be aware, there are those who know what can be achieved by constantly thinking outside the titles others rebroadcast without a true direction or a self pelf sollution.

Those who are truly working under their own steam, using honed skills are hard to distract from their true direction.

psketti wrote:
The Jewish people have just as much historical right to that part of the world as the Palestinians do, it really is as simple as that.

I believe that there would be problems in this situation even if religion were not a factor. It is like saying there would be no Iraq war if terrorism didn't exist. I also think that people of different religions get along fine in plenty of other places. So if religion were the problem then the earth would be without human life by now. To my mind religion is just one of the banners held up. On the original topic I think that changing religion would be as pointless as people in Afghanistan please go home to
Invading troops.

diamondgeezer wrote:
Purpously putting the cat amonst the pidgeons is easy to recognise, spotting the silent partners in crime the same, halting those with the matches that light the blue touch paper a little harder, until they strike the match.








I

diamondgeezer wrote:
I'd go with equal but not MORE right, which is ofc how either particular side sees it.
The israelis are just as fervent and violent as the arabs. They've broken 200+ UN resolutions and the US and UK are forever vetoing on their behalf.
IMHO the west sees the israelis as being useful distraction for the arabs so they keep stoking it up.

The moment the middle east is of no further use then we'll probably see SHTF so to speak.

andyh wrote:
Nice observation H, remember, life in the middle east is like a box of matches, the fuel for the flames resides there, then there are many matches in that box, all capable of lighting the fire that is being controlled until Alladins lamp is empty.

Agreed andy, equal rights, not more

But until the arabs drop their rabid religious hatred of jews....thats jews they want dead btw, not isrealis,,,,then there is never going to be a solution is there.

Well a final solution perhaps...

Anti-semetism is alive and well, and it makes me sick tbh.

And it all stems from religion really doesn't it. Hatred in the name of god/allah whoever.

Look at that westboro baptist lot in america. ''God hates fags''....ffs

mikey mikey wrote: To be fair they don't have to in Israel there are secular muslims around 1million of them who coexist peacefully with Jewish people.
I think it comes down to fundamentalism, i'd say many Palestinians, especially in the Gaza strip are quite fundamentalist in their beliefs, violently oppressing women, encouraging martyrdom and such like.
www.goisrael.com/Tourism_Eng/Tourist%20I...lim%20Community.aspx

Israel's far too progressive for most westerners let alone fundamentalist Islam.

My god is the right god, because my religious leaders say so, and that gives me license to use Him as a righteous excuse to project my prejudices upon anyone I don't happen to like or agree with.

Holy War....isn't that an oxymoron...

diamondgeezer wrote:
The israelis have their own rabid 'religious' hatred of the rest of the planet DG.
They have their own nuclear end game and have already threatened to nuke europe if they get attacked.

Both sides are as dangerous as each other but both are naive enough to think that the west actually gives a shit about either of them. The israelis are really supported themselves by yet another fervent bunch of religious zealots in the US.

I don't think it's all about religion, but I think it's most certainly related to religion - there are certainly aspects of the conflict that are not about religion, but there are also aspects that most certainly are. For example, those Jewish Israeli guys setting up camp on Palestinian hills saying the land is their because God gave it to them, Muslim guys who think they'll go to paradise after they've blown themselves up and Christian Zionists who think the Jews must be back in Israel to bring about the last days all consider the religious side to be very important. Religion is weaved into the whole thing, and I reckon this is an inevitability due to a religious division being there from the outset. And the extent to which religion is a factor is contingent on the beliefs of the different actors - an American strategic planner is going to have different concerns to an Islamic Fundamentalist - who in turn will probably have politics weaved in with their devotion to Allah.

Also, none of it would have happened in the first place if it wasn't for religion - if there were no Jews and they hadn't have had hundreds of years of persecution in Europe for being Jews, Zionism would never have occurred to anyone as anything worth pursuing.

This is is not to say religion is to blame, or that religious people don't also strive for peace, or if you you subtracted the religious element it would be all holding hands around Jerusalem, just that religion has a significant role that can become intertwined with the political side.

Even in this country something can be bubbling away even if it doesn't make itself overt. This friend of mine in Manchester told me his Muslim barber was saying to him the Jews killed Mohammed - this guy wouldn't have set a Synagogue on fire or anything, but he thought Jews were bad people. I'm sure it swings the other way too. In the same way lots of people are casually racist but aren't going to do anything about it.