Sanctum Zone

Keyword
A+ A A-
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Not the mad as hell thread.

Not the mad as hell thread. 09 Oct 2013 23:16 #41

  • dubmeup
  • dubmeup's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 3239
  • Thank you received: 2296
  • Karma: 0
Your example was unemployment, you said you don't have to qualify it (paraphrased you pedantic sod :D)
Ergo, your argument is that unemployment is a way of living without a job...

Are you forced to breathe?
Are you a slave because you choose to eat?

You're not, you may not like any of the options but if you have a choice you are not forced
As a stickler for interpreting words, you must see that you are essentially saying that breathing and eating are choices there :D

Well now it seems like you are conflating the current monetary system with money and/or work with taxation and the legal system
The current monetary system is money :D
I'm happy to discuss taxation and the legal system separately if you so wish :)
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the topic of this thread revolved around the concept of the current system being a form of slavery...
To whit your words seem to suggest you agree, though you claim to disagree.
You sooooo remind me of mike at times :)
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
Last Edit: 09 Oct 2013 23:21 by dubmeup.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: hugorune

Not the mad as hell thread. 09 Oct 2013 23:17 #42

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
Reptired wrote:

I'm not defending the current system, the rest of your statement is correct.
Can you point me to your evidence of my support for the current system?

Why'd you bother to post then? :D :coffee:
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

Not the mad as hell thread. 09 Oct 2013 23:26 #43

  • Reptired
  • Reptired's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Senior Boarder
  • Rank3
  • Posts: 591
  • Thank you received: 268
  • Karma: 0
knobmeup wrote:
Your example was unemployment, you said you don't have to qualify it (paraphrased you pedantic sod :D)
Ergo, your argument is that unemployment is a way of living without a job...

No, it's not, my argument would better be described as.
People don't work, therefore they cannot be said to be forced into work.
You want to infer more than I am actually saying.
Are you forced to breathe?
Are you a slave because you choose to eat?

You're not, you may not like any of the options but if you have a choice you are not forced

As a stickler for interpreting words, you must see that you are essentially saying that breathing and eating are choices there :D[/quote]

Yes, sorry, you are correct, my apologies. :emb:
I'm tired.
Well now it seems like you are conflating the current monetary system with money and/or work with taxation and the legal system
The current monetary system is money :D
I'm happy to discuss taxation and the legal system separately if you so wish :)[/quote]

*Insert Evil Charachter here* is a man, therefore men are evil.
Do you see the problem?
The defining problematic characteristic of the current monetary system is Force, not Money.
You must register to post here.

Not the mad as hell thread. 09 Oct 2013 23:32 #44

  • Reptired
  • Reptired's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Senior Boarder
  • Rank3
  • Posts: 591
  • Thank you received: 268
  • Karma: 0
andyh wrote:
Reptired wrote:

I'm not defending the current system, the rest of your statement is correct.
Can you point me to your evidence of my support for the current system?

Why'd you bother to post then? :D :coffee:

Freud


I have some deep seated self loathing stemming from my childhood that leads me to seek out pseudo arguments with crypto commies to distract me from the pain.

I think we have had a real breakthrough today though.
:thumbup:

Night folks.
:)
You must register to post here.

Not the mad as hell thread. 09 Oct 2013 23:33 #45

  • wake_up_bomb
  • wake_up_bomb's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 5063
  • Thank you received: 4418
  • Karma: 56
Go and tell these people that they have a choice:







The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: dubmeup

Not the mad as hell thread. 09 Oct 2013 23:40 #46

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
The definition of capitalism is 'ownership of the means of production'.
If thats the case then anarcho-syndicalists and even TVP types are greater capitalists than anyone else because they have a direct share in the ownership of the means of production, just one is within the monetary system and the other is without a monetary system (but not an economy) entirely.

I would suggest the media has done a damn fine job in brainwashing people tbh :)

Crypto commie indeed lol...the next thing you'll be saying is 'liberal fascist' and you don't even want to get me started on that one...
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

Not the mad as hell thread. 09 Oct 2013 23:45 #47

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
Reptired wrote:
The defining problematic characteristic of the current monetary system is Force, not Money.

You're equating money with real value or resources again :)
Money is in your head, nowhere else.
SB's link earlier was useful actually as the guy does correctly state that the current monetary setup is actually a fairly recent thing.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Reptired

Not the mad as hell thread. 09 Oct 2013 23:51 #48

  • dubmeup
  • dubmeup's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 3239
  • Thank you received: 2296
  • Karma: 0
Reptired wrote:
People don't work, therefore they cannot be said to be forced into work.
You want to infer more than I am actually saying.
No, I am happy to stick with what you are saying, though your statement is erroneous.
It would perhaps be better expressed as;
Some people don't work, therefore those people cannot be said to be forced into work.
Which is ofc irrefutable.
However, it is also contextually meaningless, especially in the absence of valid examples of those people. It's just an intellectual expression, of no value in the debate. It needs contextual qualification to be of any worth at all.
Why do I say that? Because it simply does not address the fact that the overwhelming majority are presented with no choice but to find some form of job if they are to survive in this system. Ergo, they are forced into 'work'. It does not address the fact that those who don't work are invariably on welfare, which is not a choice, it is a necessity...They are forced onto welfare (Save those very small few that find a sustainable way of life outside the system).

Yes, sorry, you are correct, my apologies. :emb:
I'm tired.
No worries :thumbup:

*Insert Evil Charachter here* is a man, therefore men are evil.
Do you see the problem?
The defining problematic characteristic of the current monetary system is Force, not Money.
Yes, I do see what you are saying there. Whilst I can see no real reason why we need any form of money, I do agree that the idea of money isn't of itself bad/evil. The current form of money is undeniably both those things though (for the majority and if such a thing as evil exists). Force is but one of the problems with it. The method of issuance once a populace has been forced into it being another. The concept of using money to make money without actually creating anything of real world value being another.
Should those things be addressed and a system of money based exchange be put in place that is just that, a means of exchange, I would have no problem with it (other than I would still be left knowing that any form of money is unnecessary and cavemanesque).
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
Last Edit: 09 Oct 2013 23:54 by dubmeup.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: andyh, Reptired

Not the mad as hell thread. 10 Oct 2013 09:49 #49

  • Reptired
  • Reptired's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Senior Boarder
  • Rank3
  • Posts: 591
  • Thank you received: 268
  • Karma: 0
andyh wrote:
The definition of capitalism is 'ownership of the means of production'.
If thats the case then anarcho-syndicalists and even TVP types are greater capitalists than anyone else because they have a direct share in the ownership of the means of production, just one is within the monetary system and the other is without a monetary system (but not an economy) entirely.

I'm not so interested in capitalism, it has many contradictory definitions, moreso freedom from coercion as a starting point for a rational society.
You cannot have a share in ownership, it's like being a little bit pregnant or free to vote.
I know what you mean though, and if it's voluntary, all good.
andyh wrote:
I would suggest the media has done a damn fine job in brainwashing people tbh :)

Perhaps, I think the focus should be on the schooling system with regards to brainwashing though.
andyh wrote:
Crypto commie indeed lol...the next thing you'll be saying is 'liberal fascist' and you don't even want to get me started on that one...

I could make an argument for anything except fascist.
:D
You must register to post here.

Not the mad as hell thread. 10 Oct 2013 09:53 #50

  • Reptired
  • Reptired's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Senior Boarder
  • Rank3
  • Posts: 591
  • Thank you received: 268
  • Karma: 0
andyh wrote:
Reptired wrote:
The defining problematic characteristic of the current monetary system is Force, not Money.

You're equating money with real value or resources again :)
Money is in your head, nowhere else.
SB's link earlier was useful actually as the guy does correctly state that the current monetary setup is actually a fairly recent thing.

I'm not equating money with resources.
If you want to make a claim like that it would be helpful if you try to prove it.
Money is a concept, I fully agree, the system currently in place would not be a problem if people were not forced (literally) into it.
If I wanted to run some organisation like the fed, loaning out money I make up on a computer at interest to people, what kind of a retard is going to enter into that, and what business of anybody elses is it if they do? Money is not a problem, money is not a resource either.
You must register to post here.

Not the mad as hell thread. 10 Oct 2013 10:00 #51

  • Reptired
  • Reptired's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Senior Boarder
  • Rank3
  • Posts: 591
  • Thank you received: 268
  • Karma: 0
knobmeup wrote:
Reptired wrote:
People don't work, therefore they cannot be said to be forced into work.
You want to infer more than I am actually saying.
No, I am happy to stick with what you are saying, though your statement is erroneous.
It would perhaps be better expressed as;
Some people don't work, therefore those people cannot be said to be forced into work.
Which is ofc irrefutable.
However, it is also contextually meaningless, especially in the absence of valid examples of those people. It's just an intellectual expression, of no value in the debate. It needs contextual qualification to be of any worth at all.
Why do I say that? Because it simply does not address the fact that the overwhelming majority are presented with no choice but to find some form of job if they are to survive in this system. Ergo, they are forced into 'work'. It does not address the fact that those who don't work are invariably on welfare, which is not a choice, it is a necessity...They are forced onto welfare (Save those very small few that find a sustainable way of life outside the system).

Yes, sorry, you are correct, my apologies. :emb:
I'm tired.
No worries :thumbup:

*Insert Evil Charachter here* is a man, therefore men are evil.
Do you see the problem?
The defining problematic characteristic of the current monetary system is Force, not Money.
Yes, I do see what you are saying there. Whilst I can see no real reason why we need any form of money, I do agree that the idea of money isn't of itself bad/evil. The current form of money is undeniably both those things though (for the majority and if such a thing as evil exists). Force is but one of the problems with it. The method of issuance once a populace has been forced into it being another. The concept of using money to make money without actually creating anything of real world value being another.
Should those things be addressed and a system of money based exchange be put in place that is just that, a means of exchange, I would have no problem with it (other than I would still be left knowing that any form of money is unnecessary and cavemanesque).

The method of issuing money being a problem is dependant of first the Initiation of Force, it goes away without the force, because people won't use it for very long.
You shouldn't be forced (literally) into using money anymore than people should be forced to use a certain type of money, it's equally irrational and morally wrong to force people to not use money.
You must register to post here.

Not the mad as hell thread. 10 Oct 2013 11:21 #52

  • dubmeup
  • dubmeup's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 3239
  • Thank you received: 2296
  • Karma: 0
Reptired wrote:
The method of issuing money being a problem is dependant of first the Initiation of Force, it goes away without the force, because people won't use it for very long.
Yes, I do get that. I thought I was clear about that and that I do consider the monopoly to be a problem. It's just that I also see other problems with it too.
You shouldn't be forced (literally) into using money anymore than people should be forced to use a certain type of money, it's equally irrational and morally wrong to force people to not use money.
Couldn't agree more :thumbup:
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Reptired

Not the mad as hell thread. 10 Oct 2013 12:23 #53

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
Reptired wrote:
andyh wrote:
Reptired wrote:
The defining problematic characteristic of the current monetary system is Force, not Money.

You're equating money with real value or resources again :)
Money is in your head, nowhere else.
SB's link earlier was useful actually as the guy does correctly state that the current monetary setup is actually a fairly recent thing.

I'm not equating money with resources.
If you want to make a claim like that it would be helpful if you try to prove it.
Money is a concept, I fully agree, the system currently in place would not be a problem if people were not forced (literally) into it.
If I wanted to run some organisation like the fed, loaning out money I make up on a computer at interest to people, what kind of a retard is going to enter into that, and what business of anybody elses is it if they do? Money is not a problem, money is not a resource either.

Money is a problem when it doesn't actually exist, you've just stated above the problem with it. So yes, money obviously IS a problem.
Bear in mind what we're talking about is money as it is right now, not as it was hundreds of years ago.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

Not the mad as hell thread. 10 Oct 2013 12:51 #54

  • Reptired
  • Reptired's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Senior Boarder
  • Rank3
  • Posts: 591
  • Thank you received: 268
  • Karma: 0
andyh wrote:
Reptired wrote:
andyh wrote:
Reptired wrote:
The defining problematic characteristic of the current monetary system is Force, not Money.

You're equating money with real value or resources again :)
Money is in your head, nowhere else.
SB's link earlier was useful actually as the guy does correctly state that the current monetary setup is actually a fairly recent thing.

I'm not equating money with resources.
If you want to make a claim like that it would be helpful if you try to prove it.
Money is a concept, I fully agree, the system currently in place would not be a problem if people were not forced (literally) into it.
If I wanted to run some organisation like the fed, loaning out money I make up on a computer at interest to people, what kind of a retard is going to enter into that, and what business of anybody elses is it if they do? Money is not a problem, money is not a resource either.

Money is a problem when it doesn't actually exist, you've just stated above the problem with it. So yes, money obviously IS a problem.
Bear in mind what we're talking about is money as it is right now, not as it was hundreds of years ago.

Ah, I would never talk about money only as it is now, as it implies force (literally).
Sure the current monetary is a problem, but money in a common definition is not, as far as I'm concerned anyway.

Actually just looking at the first definitions brought up by startpage, you get both definitions.

"1. A medium that can be exchanged for goods and services and is used as a measure of their values on the market, including among its forms a commodity such as gold, an officially issued coin or note, or a deposit in a checking account or other readily liquefiable account.
2. The official currency, coins, and negotiable paper notes issued by a government."

:facepalm:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/money

When I say money, I mean "A Medium of Exchange".
You must register to post here.

Not the mad as hell thread. 10 Oct 2013 13:15 #55

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
Then you agree so nothing more to discuss :)
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Reptired

Not the mad as hell thread. 10 Oct 2013 13:22 #56

  • Reptired
  • Reptired's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Senior Boarder
  • Rank3
  • Posts: 591
  • Thank you received: 268
  • Karma: 0
FIN
You must register to post here.
Moderators: oioioi, psketti, batou
Time to create page: 0.170 seconds

Latest Members Blogs

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Prev Next

What is going on when it comes to 9-11 I…

The EPA (environmental protection agency) and OSHA took air samples in the days following September 11th, they reported that they found no excessive levels of asbestos contrary to other findings....

Read more

9-11 Eleven Years Later

9-11 Eleven Years Later

With the anniversary of September 11th literally just around the corner, unanswered questions still remain for families who lost loved ones during the tragic event, as well as from families...

Read more

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass An…

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass Animal Deaths

In 2008 the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to review a series of lower court rulings that restrict the United States Navy's use of sonar in submarine detection training exercises off...

Read more

Annual Server Target

Whether its 50 cents or five dollars, your donations are appreciated and help keep this community site running so we can all continue to enjoy using it.
This target is to meet our server cost for one year, June 2020 - May 2021, in USD.
$ 340 - Target
( £ 250 GBP )
donation thermometer
donation thermometer
$ 192 - Raised
( £ 140 GBP )
donation thermometer
56%
Most Recent Donation:
$122 USD on 4th Jan 2021
Bitcoin Address: bc1q0kazqya0nurfxtunxv807vm0m8852nnrrk8mj8
 
Ethereum Address: 0xe69915c80dd75df19f438d556267e04f932f057d
 
More Info: Donation options for TZ

No one is obliged to donate, please only donate what you can afford. Even the smallest amount helps. Being an active member is a positive contribution. Thank You.

TradeZone Latest

Visitors

Today4346
Yesterday4432
Week4346
Month29281
Total1127705

Your IP Address: 216.73.216.57 Your Browser and OS: Unknown - Unknown Monday, 24 August 2026 19:06

Who Is Online

Guests : 231 guests online Members : No members online
© 2012 – 2021 Sanctum Zone | All rights reserved. This website is a place for people to express and discuss their views on the news and world events. DISCLAIMER: Please Note: Views expressed and submitted by contributors are their own personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions and beliefs of the Sanctum Zone website and its founder(s) , administrators , moderators , and any other website maintenance technicians, personnel and volunteers. Articles and messages posted on this website and forum are solely the opinion of their authors.

Login or Register

LOG IN

Register

User Registration
or Cancel