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TOPIC: Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal

Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 17:24 #1

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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal
Screengrab of NISD webpage The school is one of 112 in Texas meant to introduce badges equipped with RFID tags
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A Texan student who refused to wear a badge with a radio tag that tracked her movements has lost a federal court appeal against her school's ID policy.

The radio chips track attendance, which in turn helps secure school funding.

But Andrea Hernandez, 15, stopped wearing the badge on religious grounds, saying it was the "mark of the beast".

After John Jay High School suspended her, she went to court and won a temporary injunction to continue her studies at the school, without the tag.

The federal court ruling overturned that, saying if she was to stay at the school, she would be required to wear the badge. Otherwise, she would have to transfer to a new school.

The new identification policy at the Northside Independent School District (NISD) in San Antonio, Texas, began at the start of the 2012 school year.

John Jay High School is one of two schools piloting the programme, which eventually aims to equip all student badges across the district's 112 schools with radio-frequency identification (RFID) chips.

The badges reveal each student's location on their campus, giving the district more precise information on attendance.

The daily average of the attendance is related to how much funding each school receives.

But Miss Hernandez said the badge was the "mark of the beast", as described in chapter 13 of the Book of Revelation in the Bible.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20957587

Perhaps she should have tried the civil liberties angle :roll:
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 17:40 #2

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The courts apply contractual law first.
She stays at the school she agrees to their contract.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 18:18 #3

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I wonder what their argument is for these chips being any more effective at tracking attendance than registers. I bet they cost more.
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Last Edit: 09 Jan 2013 18:21 by Gilly.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 18:26 #4

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You'd think the children were the property of the schools. This is the public school system; ie. it's supposed to offer a public service. There's no requirement to send children to school at all.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 18:29 #5

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I love the fact she was told it's school policy and if she doesn't like it to go to a school where it isn't policy, then the article states "John Jay High School is one of two schools piloting the programme, which eventually aims to equip all student badges across the district’s 112 schools with radio-​frequency identification (RFID) chips."
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 18:31 #6

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
There's no requirement to send children to school at all.

If you had kids and you tried it in the UK then you'll find the SS are at the door rather rapidly followed by various other agencies and then people breaking in your house at weird times of the day to steal the kids.

I would say you'll probably get away with it if you're a qualified teacher and know the rules and regs but God help anyone who's not careful tbh.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 18:45 #7

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andyh wrote:
If you had kids and you tried it in the UK then you'll find the SS are at the door rather rapidly followed by various other agencies and then people breaking in your house at weird times of the day to steal the kids.

I would say you'll probably get away with it if you're a qualified teacher and know the rules and regs but God help anyone who's not careful tbh.
I have heard there are problems with this, but the number of homeschooled kids is, understandably, going up and up. If I was going to do this in the UK, I'd try to live in an area where there are homeschooling groups. I understand that the social services snatch kids away for petty reasons, if it came down to this you'd have to up sticks and leave, I suppose.

I believe the school system is an almost entirely negative influence, and I also believe I could do a better job of educating any child on a one-to-one basis than the world's greatest teacher could in classes of 30. I'm against the indoctrination of the school system, I'm against the way that it institutionalises kids, I'm against the way it teaches them to bow down to authority. I don't believe half the stuff you learn in school is worthwhile, and I know for a fact that it's got ten time worse since I was at school. I'm not having any child of mine sit through bullshit lessons about 'climate change' and 'sustainability' while the school teaches them that it's right for them to deny themselves basic amenities.

I haven't had to deal with all the practicalities and problems that this poses yet, maybe I never will, but I feel very strongly that I'm morally opposed to the state school system in England, and I don't think I could allow a child of mine to go through it. I entirely understand why other people do, though, and there are arguments for it, without doubt.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 18:54 #8

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
andyh wrote:
If you had kids and you tried it in the UK then you'll find the SS are at the door rather rapidly followed by various other agencies and then people breaking in your house at weird times of the day to steal the kids.

I would say you'll probably get away with it if you're a qualified teacher and know the rules and regs but God help anyone who's not careful tbh.
I have heard there are problems with this, but the number of homeschooled kids is, understandably, going up and up. If I was going to do this in the UK, I'd try to live in an area where there are homeschooling groups. I understand that the social services snatch kids away for petty reasons, if it came down to this you'd have to up sticks and leave, I suppose.

I believe the school system is an almost entirely negative influence, and I also believe I could do a better job of educating any child on a one-to-one basis than the world's greatest teacher could in classes of 30. I'm against the indoctrination of the school system, I'm against the way that it institutionalises kids, I'm against the way it teaches them to bow down to authority. I don't believe half the stuff you learn in school is worthwhile, and I know for a fact that it's got ten time worse since I was at school. I'm not having any child of mine sit through bullshit lessons about 'climate change' and 'sustainability' while the school teaches them that it's right for them to deny themselves basic amenities.

I haven't had to deal with all the practicalities and problems that this poses yet, maybe I never will, but I feel very strongly that I'm morally opposed to the state school system in England, and I don't think I could allow a child of mine to go through it. I entirely understand why other people do, though, and there are arguments for it, without doubt.

The only argument I can come up with in favour of it, is that the kids get to meet lots of other kids.
Its an important part of their learning process, socialising with peers.

The rest of it as far as I'm concerned is exactly as you see it yourself WUB.

I'm more inclined to send my kids to school abroad than in the UK and pay for it out of my own pocket if I have to.
That way I have some control.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 18:59 #9

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They won't care that much when she is sixteen if she goes to school or not, it's probably a thing where all the kids are required and it's agreed on, and they really don't want something rocking the boat.

And plus I wonder who taught her about the mark of the beast?
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 19:03 #10

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They will though if she's still meant to be attending, because of the link to funding.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 19:10 #11

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Gilly wrote:
They will though if she's still meant to be attending, because of the link to funding.


They must have issues in that county

And maybe they want to try it as a control incentive and a parental type help to keep kids from doing badly and skipping then dropping out, I would bet money that particular school had a high dropout rate
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Last Edit: 09 Jan 2013 19:14 by Rick.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 19:15 #12

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andyh wrote:
The only argument I can come up with in favour of it, is that the kids get to meet lots of other kids.
Its an important part of their learning process, socialising with peers.
This is the main one, socialisation, although you could argue that children would benefit from not being exposed to the cookie cutter peer pressure that they will inevitably experience at school.

The other argument I was thinking of was that you could argue that by homeschooling your child you're making their mind up for them regarding what sort of life they want to lead. It's difficult because the boundaries of this are always difficult to define precisely. It's always difficult to assess precisely where you're giving a child good boundaries, as opposed to imposing your values on them.
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Last Edit: 09 Jan 2013 23:33 by wake_up_bomb.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 19:21 #13

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Rick wrote:
Gilly wrote:
They will though if she's still meant to be attending, because of the link to funding.


They must have issues in that county

And maybe they want to try it as a control incentive and a parental type help to keep kids from doing badly and skipping then dropping out, I would bet money that particular school had a high dropout rate

From memory, I think that's true.

However, registrations identify absences - is this chip supposed to do anything other than identify absences? Except maybe damage health with its radiation emission?
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 23:12 #14

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
It's always difficult to assess precisely where you're giving a child good boundaries, as opposed to imposing your values on them.

Something again that I've questioned many times over the years as to whether this is what I'm actually doing sometimes with my kids. I still question it.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 23:33 #15

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psketti wrote:
Something again that I've questioned many times over the years as to whether this is what I'm actually doing sometimes with my kids. I still question it.
It's practically impossible to get it perfect. Take the homeschooling example. What happens if one day your child states that they want to go to school - do you tell them that you know what's best for them, or do you relent to their wishes even though you don't want them to be exposed to it?
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 23:43 #16

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psketti wrote:
wake_up_bomb wrote:
It's always difficult to assess precisely where you're giving a child good boundaries, as opposed to imposing your values on them.

Something again that I've questioned many times over the years as to whether this is what I'm actually doing sometimes with my kids. I still question it.

Either side of the fence it's the same theme.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 23:48 #17

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
psketti wrote:
Something again that I've questioned many times over the years as to whether this is what I'm actually doing sometimes with my kids. I still question it.
It's practically impossible to get it perfect. Take the homeschooling example. What happens if one day your child states that they want to go to school - do you tell them that you know what's best for them, or do you relent to their wishes even though you don't want them to be exposed to it?

I suppose it depends on the situation, not all schools are completely shit and not all parents are cut out for homeschooling either.
I would say go with whatever you feel is right, just a shame the govt etc want to stick their noses into everything because people keep whining at them to 'do something'
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 09 Jan 2013 23:48 #18

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
psketti wrote:
Something again that I've questioned many times over the years as to whether this is what I'm actually doing sometimes with my kids. I still question it.
It's practically impossible to get it perfect. Take the homeschooling example. What happens if one day your child states that they want to go to school - do you tell them that you know what's best for them, or do you relent to their wishes even though you don't want them to be exposed to it?

Been there too as it goes :)

I discovered John Taylor Gatto when my last child was a baby and made the decision then to homeschool her for as long as my abilities and surroundings allowed me to. So at the age of three and a half, when I was supposed to send her to pre school etc, I didn't and began to teach her the basics. At such a young age it really isn't hard to teach, though I did fret sometimes thinking I wasn't 'doing it right' but that passed over time. I was assessed once by the education department and passed with no problems.
I always said that when she turned round and told me she wanted to go to school, I'd let her... which I did. She was nearly six by then and it was actually very hard to do, But I did it all the same. We lived in a very small rural town and she was a member of the local gymnastics, swimming and Brownies so intergrated with all the village kids this way. Part of my reasons actually for not fighting to keep her at home longer was the questioning that had started being directed at her via the other kids, as you can imagine.

It wasn't long but I cherish those few extra years I had with my little girl and only wish I'd came across Mr Gatto when my boys were young as I believe my whole childrens educations would be somewhat different to the ones they've had.

I despise practically everything about the education system.
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 10 Jan 2013 00:31 #19

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psketti wrote:
Been there too as it goes :)
I think you probably did right, who's to say what's right and what's wrong? All you can do is the best you can.

I think of it from my point-of-view, where if someone had offered me the chance to not attend school and be home tutored by my parent(s) when I was 12/13, it wouldn't have taken me a second to decide to ditch school. I guess not everyone is an unsociable as me! I would have seen my friends out of school, but I didn't like them that much that I needed to go to school to see them!
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Pupil Hernandez, who refused to wear RFID, loses appeal 10 Jan 2013 00:44 #20

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she should just get her high school diploma at a community college or online. shes almost done anyway. theres nothing she can't learn herself.
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