mikey mikey wrote:
Ok mikey i told you before from memory all i could without looking it up.

I had to go out for a while and do a 20 mile round trip.

So ive returned...and looked it up since i have records of the admin conversatons...and on your questions...

Decision was made the night of 19 september UK time.

Uploads to build the site began the very next day and are still in progress.

The forum aspect of the site was announced as open to prospective members at the time of the announcement here, and was only completed and operational minutes before that.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
Well I just wanted to clarify for myself that when you said
"I def­i­nitely don’t think DG, Frog, Novum or any­one else owe me any­thing, not even an expla­na­tion.
I’ve never had any issues with the mod­er­a­tion, the rules of the forum, or any­thing else"
that you weren't contrasting yourself with a member
who does think DG, Frog, Novum owe them something, including an expla­na­tion.
And who has indeed had issues with the mod­er­a­tion, the rules of the forum, or something else.

But thanks for clearing that up.

novum wrote:
Thank you very much indeed.

I apologise if I have been a pain in the arse and put you to a lot of trouble.

However, I can assure you that this information will put many people's mind at rest. I have no doubt about it.

Thanks again.

So all SZ posts will simply be filed and we all start anew in TZ.
Anyway, I already joined TZ. Looks great.

mikey mikey wrote:
ok,

1. We finally decided on the new site just over a week ago, and at that point we got straight onto moving it forwards...I registered the domain for TZ, and Frog and Novum got straight to work.

HOWEVER, the discussions between the three of us as to how to go about dealing with the problems we were seeing here have been going on a lot longer than a week.

2. We announced at what we saw as an appropriate time...on a friday night, the beginning of the weekend. Most SZ'ers (the ones who still bother checking in around here) are most likely to be around at some point during the next 48 hrs. Also, just what is so sinister about 1am as a time to announce pray tell? We do have an international membership you know.

3. re Mart...well as both Novum and I earlier yesterday, before this announcement was even made, heartily agreed with him in the other thread regarding the lack of diversity and people 'ganging up' being a problem on SZ, then I can't see why he should be blaming himself for our decision do you?

Any more questions, as we are now being 'explicit'?

chandrakavi wrote:
No not at all chandrakavi.

SZ will continue as it is, and be a site run with community consensus making decisions as it is now, albeit some of those things need further clarification and sorting out by the members.

TZ will be a more conventional site where the administrators ultimately make the decisions.

What TZ is offering, is a choice for members or prospective members.

Sanctum Zone can and will continue in its current form, and our announcement talks about handing over the administration and ownership of SZ to the participating members.

TZ is a new and entirely different/seperate site.

Myself, Frog and diamondgeezer will be stepping down from administering SZ once it has been handed to the community.

diamondgeezer wrote:
I would just like to quote that portion of DG's post and confirm it is the case.

We are also responding to feedback from a range of members past and present over a long period of time.

What we have done is effectively given people a choice...those who enjoy SZ in its current form can stay on, and those who have expressed otherwise have the option of joining the other site.

diamondgeezer wrote:
Yes, Novum explained. Thank you. as I said to Novum, that will put a lot of minds at rest.
diamondgeezer wrote:
I never suggested that 1 a.m is sinister at all. I just tried to answer your question as to why a large portion of the membership (UK) would be bewildered and disappointed to read your announcement 5 minutes before they go to bed. I am fully aware of the international nature of forums having spent the first 4 years on DIF posting from Japan,
diamondgeezer wrote:
Indeed, a person who hasn't been accused of "ganging up" is feeling to blame, so one can only imagine how people who have been accused of "ganging up" are feeling.

Sorry to have bothered you. Thanks for you time and patience.

novum wrote:
I am curious about this line from the OP: "We hope that every sin­gle one of you will join us there."

In light of the reasons for the new forum, it doesn't seem to be a plausible aspiration.

If the lack of diversity in opinion and the ganging up are the problems as you see them at SZ, then how would these problems be avoided with the same membership (i.e. every single on of you).

Is it your intention to solve the problem of lack of diversity and "ganging up" through more direct and authoratative moderation?

Or is your hope that the type of members who would rather avoid more top down (traditional) moderation are also the ones responsible for the "lack of diversity" and "ganging up"?, In this way, will those that prefer the community moderation and decision making prefer to stay at SZ and keep the "ganging up" here while those that seek to ensure their diverse opinions are protected from the rest of the community by going through the proper channels?

I wont be drawn into discussions about moderation on the other site.

As i said, people have a choice now as to which method they prefer and we wont be excluding anyone from the new site, including all members here..thats what DG was communitcating with that line you mentioned.

I will say that if people are happy with how the other site is managed they will participate, and if they arent they wont, simple as that.

novum wrote:
Well, i have joined and already started a thread about googlein the News section .

So could I ask you about moderation of that site over on TZ?

mikey mikey wrote:
Sure, the FAQ section, its the appropriate section for questions etc.

novum wrote:
Aren't they pretty much the ones here, right?

I didn't see this question or its answer:

Is it your inten­tion to solve the prob­lem of lack of diver­sity and “gang­ing up” through more direct and autho­r­ata­tive mod­er­a­tion?

Or is your hope that the type of mem­bers who would rather avoid more top down (tra­di­tional) mod­er­a­tion are also the ones respon­si­ble for the “lack of diver­sity” and “gang­ing up”?, In this way, will those that pre­fer the com­mu­nity mod­er­a­tion and deci­sion mak­ing pre­fer to stay at SZ and keep the “gang­ing up” here while those that seek to ensure their diverse opin­ions are pro­tected from the rest of the com­mu­nity by going through the proper channels?

mikey mikey wrote:
All are welcome at the other site.

mikey mikey wrote:
You use the word problem however i personally choose not to use that word in regards to here.

There are many members here who like the way SZ works.

There are also members however who have conveyed to administrators that they would prefer that administrators take a more hands on approach as to the running of the site, leaving them free to not have to concern themselves with all the ins and outs.

Therefore we have given current (and potential) members a choice.

novum wrote:
Well that's reassuring. I have to admit to still having a bit of Post- traumatic-banhammer-disorder.
novum wrote:
Well I am happy to do both forums

I was juggling this one and some other green one while fishing for members for weeks , if you recall.

NO...........am I going to have to pack my bags and move forums again!

Why , why why are we moving............I don't understand?

And a comment to MartG .......don't you dare leave ..you are a wonderful person

Just to clarify one thing.
I was not involved in any discussions or preparations for the new site.
Not that I should have been of course, but just before assumptions are made or aspersions cast.
I've heard that can happen in conspiracy forums.


I may have more comments to make, but I'll leave them until the close of polling tomorrow.

dawnbreak wrote:
No one is moving dawn.

We have offered the choice of another site and people can decide which they would like to participate in...one or the other, or both.

I find this all a bit dramatic and drastic.

All of this just to get away from my "The wife's leaving me" thread.

feather wrote:
I concur this to be true and correct.
jhado wrote:
LMAO!