feather wrote:
This used to be like coming home, a nice place to be. Now you find your living room is full of cunts, pissing on your slippers.

Ah, I was speaking generally, obviously Mike should be fucked off forever and a day

I agree with your point of view 100%, Feather.

Some people just thrive on creating disharmony - I don't mean by voicing unpopular opinions, but rather by deliberate repeated tw@ishness of conduct, and I don't see why they should be indulged.

jhado wrote: My sentiments exactly mate and I'm not going to apologise for shouting "this place stinks of piss let's stop pretending it doesn't and start cleaning it up."

I agree entirely with you gilly the only thing I would expand on is that intent behind behaviour can on occasion be in the eye of the beholder/s and said behaviour is not all one sided - one sides behaviour is often forgiven or overlooked and the other not so when both in their own special ways are not being particularly awesome to eachother.

thoreau wrote:
Do you have some examples you maybe want to share there to illustrate.
Don't worry if I'm one. I've already stated that I expect to be held to account if I step over the line.
I'm just keen that some kind of progress is made before all we have is trolls winding up trolls.

btw that is exactly what happened to the NME (New Musical Express) forums.
It used to be one of the webs biggest forums they got wooly with the admin, then it got too hard to mod and the trolls rampaged the place into the dust.
It's gone now completely. 100's of thousands of members down to a hole in the web in no time.

Thor, I take your point, but there are characters who do go around deliberately baiting as a matter of course - Mike being a prime example. Do you agree that instances like that should be cut & dried, or would you argue that that's open to interpretation?

@feather - I could trawl through for specifics but tbh I don't want to get personal with anyone as I believe that there has been provocation on all sides.

Behaviours I find particularly unhelpful include - repetitive and consistent name calling, people being overly defensive, people following others around the boards to wind up or continue an argument from elsewhere, the creation of 'thems and us' type divisions, flouncing, attacking the poster not the content of the post - inability to let go of historic arguments - repetitive and insulting accusations.

Gilly wrote:
There are people who are deliberate shits - but usually that is new members or socks on a wind up and for me that is pretty cut and dried - with those who have managed to establish themselves as regular members by not being a dick often there is a valid reason as for their behaviour even if it is annoying to put up with at the time - I would prefer therefore to use a warning or temporary ban - and if whatever the issue is cannot be resolved a vote put to the community for a more permanent solution.

thoreau wrote: That has been a disaster to date imho.

Seriously, the only thing that was conclusively decided by a vote was that we wanted moderators.
We now don't have moderators.

Not being deliberately contentious there, just supporting my statement.

thoreau wrote:

They're fair points and I know what I'm guilty off. The problem is, I have never claimed to be anything different nor could I be. I've pointed out before that this raises problems given the position I have but it's like being stuck on a fucking pedestal that I never wanted nor asked for.

feather wrote:
It hasn't been as simple as it looks on paper thats for sure - i remain in preference for it, though more then open to other ideas

feather wrote:
Sorry but that was a genuine LOL for me.

thoreau wrote:
We ask people we trust and respect to take on the additional functions required to run a forum, then we continue trust and respect them to do so when they accept.

Like 99.9999% of real jobs out there.

Let's finally lose the goddam drama around how bad and evil a man sean is and set our expectations based upon his shit.
He's a businessman protecting his product and assets.
Not half a dozen wee folks sitting at their pc's and laptops volunteering to do some tasks for their mates when time allows.

I swear all that shit about mods/cops/etc all being bastards, thrown around as a statement of unchallengeable, fact does my head in.
Like any generalisation it is completely inaccurate, prejudiced and juvenile.
Here it makes anyone concerned enough to volunteer a target for shit and abuse.
How many has said "nah, fuck it! so far?
Lets get rid of that shit please!!

The other thing I would like to see smacked with the reality brush is the expectation this wee forum is about to change anything for the better in this world other than potentially up our quality of leisure time online occasionally.
Can we also drop that grandiose pretentious expectation which are bound to disappoint as it will never materialise?

Yes, I am on a bit of a rant tonight, because I genuinely believe that we don't have many chances left to fix this and I really, really do like a good few of you guys. I also like a lot more who are no longer here to participate in this.
I don't want to determine the direction of the group but I am feeling a pull asking if this is still not only enjoyable, but tolerable.

For the record: Mike knew EXACTLY what he was doing here. Did anyone else get a pm with his maoist thing log in on TZ?
Yeah he was trolling there, using marxist references and wanted others to play along too.
I didn't, but I did tell him Novum would be onto his I.P. in no time and tally it with mike here.
Yup, novum did.

The guy was a troll, his objective was to disrupt he kept prodding the depths to see how far he could still go and he went pretty far.
Most trolls will play the 'free speech' or 'victim' card to attempt to frustrate action against them. It's standard procedure.

One person acts and they are a egomaniac/power junkie, (see the shit fired at Psketti on her last action for example), The community acts and voices it's displeasure with a poster and it's not peer pressure it's 'ganging up' 'a clique' yadda fucking yadda.

We're not kids, we know when we're being played. Sometimes we might get it wrong but no-one dies, no-one!

oioioi wrote: Yeah
Thanks for your contribution.

Sorry for the time wasting.

Nothing to see here.

I said 'sorry'!

I can see you've got it on you, and I know it's because you care, and you raise some valid points, you also raised a chuckle.

As I didn't know Mike and I don't really know anyone else for that matter, I took his posts at face value and didn't see him as trolling at all. So therefore, him being banned was a bit of a shock.

It's strange really. I have posted on another forum for years, totally unrelated to this subject matter and am often banned for disagreeing with the dircetion of said forum. To them, I'm seen as a troll, although I'm actually far from it. I think that quite often, familarity does breed contempt.

feather wrote:
Bingo!

This is not about differing opinions. It's spite, nothing else.

Are all of these arguments historical? (ie: Carried over from the Icke forum). Or are the fall outs recent?

As a relative newcomer, I don't think I've ever found a forum with so many people at each others throats.