dogsmilk wrote:
I'm confused as to why not liking the massacre of innocent people constitutes a "liberal mantra". It's kind of a human thing not to be into arbitrary murder - even brutal dictators tend to concoct some kind of moral justification for killing people, however flimsy, or else try to keep it hidden because just killing people for the sake of killing has never been a popular idea. Hell, human civilisation would never have been possible if it was.
It's as much a human thing to be into killing things, other humans included as it is to be appalled by "arbitrary murder" which is equally as likely to arouse them as appal them.
You don't know why they did it, you seem to think every American citizen is automatically innocent simply because they're standing around a sidewalk -built on top of indian grave yards- watching people racing, you think they're innocent for enjoying life, being healthy and happy consumers while people starve and die from poverty all over the world.
I don't make that assumption, I'm willing to entertain the idea that their very being there, willingly engaging in some mindless spectacle, taking a day off work to enjoy the race etc is a show of their personal allegiance to a cause many around the world would consider faaaar from innocent.
What makes you think people aren't innocent? If you went out to the nearest shop and stabbed the shopkeeper to death, it would be fair to say you'd killed an innocent person.
In what sense can you consider a compliant capitalist shop owner innocent? Do you mean ignorant?
You don't know them, you know nothing about them and they've done nothing to hurt you. Even if they secretly ate babies alive, your act is committed without any knowledge of this and without their innocence or lack of being a factor.
If nobody is innocent, then everybody is fair game and we may as well just attack people on a whim. Personally, that's not the sort of world I wish to live in.
So this world we live in, apparently full of innocent people, is it the kind of world you'd wish for if you had a choice?
Now say it isn't the world you'd choose what makes it imperfect, and how much does the average bystander do to improve or make it worse?
The bold I think this is your second big, very wrong assumption, just because you don't like people doesn't mean they don't have anything to offer you, doesn't mean because their all fucked in the head you go around killing them.
What 'change' did those guys achieve? All they achieved was to unite people in despising them. The sum total of change will in all likelihood be increased security at public events.
You don't know what they wanted to achieve, what they have or will achieve, chances are it won't be any self reflection if you're one of the millions of innocent bystanders living in the US
I don't see someone as a 'loser' because they live and die in obscurity. Hell, I fully intend to live and die in obscurity - fame would do my fucking head in.
Neither do I, but most the people who die in obscurity are losers all the same, very few live on and are remembered, or make any contribution to the world worth remembering.
Change needs to occur because lots of people make it happen. Otherwise you just become like that which came before - some cunt trying to impose their will on everyone.
So you assert your personal Ideal (that goes against all history imo) that change must happen but in a certain (undefined but popular) way, according to your rules, the rules of the mob, change will never happen if it's left up to the masses my friend.
Seeing history as big important individuals doing grand deeds, kings and queens, great movers and shakers is a very conventional notion that detracts from the struggle of ordinary working class people. It's what you're encouraged to do. It's far more the 'liberal notion'. You may as well idolise Tony Blair - he invaded countries and shit. And he got away with it too.
You'd have it stay that way as well it seems, marks made on history only by the classes most able to do so, in the era we're in the Working class has the potential, knowledge and communicative abilities to makes such grand coordinated marks on the Capitalistic/post industrial landscape, but awh, there's Dogsmilk with a bunch of liberals saying "violence is bad", "let's just be good and decent hardworking human beings", "world shaking actions are the reserve of emperors and monarchs".
You're scared of the very things that will liberate you from the chains you can barely see, you decry violence yet hope for change, perhaps even revolution, but it's easy to pay such lofty ideals lip service from the comfort of the living room arm chair etc, if Change ever comes for us will you be the one sticking his head above the parapet to shout to your comrades "lay down arms", "killing's bad mmkay", "let's just be decent human liberals"?
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