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TOPIC: What's this rich landowner up to?

What's this rich landowner up to? 28 Oct 2013 22:07 #1

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Scottish landowner plans to bring back wolves and bears

A millionaire landowner is drawing up plans to introduce bears and wolves to his sprawling Scottish estate.

Paul Lister, heir to the MFI furniture fortune, is pushing ahead with his plan to create the unusual wildlife reserve on his 23,000 acres of land in Sutherland.

The animal enthusiast introduced elk and wild boar to the Alladale Estate on a temporary trial basis before reverting to less unusual stock such as Highland cattle.

But he has faced opposition from farmers, walkers and legal experts over his new plan of bringing in wolves and bears.

Since buying the estate ten years ago, Mr Lister has overseen the planting of more than 800,000 native trees and has launched conservation schemes to protect native species which are under threat such as the Scottish wildcat and red quirrel.

He has now pledged to carry out his more ambitious wildlife plans by building a massive fence enclosing a 50,000-acre plot where the predators would be free to roam.

Speaking to BBC Scotland, he said: “We're going to do a feasibility study on the big vision and the vision is to have a minimum area of 50,000 acres, have a fence around it, and bring back wolves and bears into that area.

“We'll assess the socio-economic impact that will have and also the environmental impact.

“The presence of these large predators really changes the landscape for the benefit of nature.

“We're talking about maybe two packs of 10 wolves, maybe a dozen bears. These animals create the environment.

“It's not humans who create the environment, it's nature.”

Mr Lister will either need to buy more land or enlist the support of other local landowners to make his dream of creating the massive enclosure a reality.

Drew McFarlane-Slack, of Scottish Land and Estates landowners' organisation, urged caution over the plans.

He said: “We would support what Mr Lister is doing in terms of peatland restoration, work with red squirrels and Scottish wildcats, which are native animals.

"But the reintroduction of big carnivores would require great care and it'll be many years before we can get to a point where there could be a general release of these."

Wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone National Park in the United States in 1995.

Wildlife expert, Roy Dennis, who is based in the Highlands believes Scotland could follow suit.

He said: "Many of us now go on holiday to Italy, Spain and France and what have they got there? They've got wolves and they've got lynx and they've got bears.

"But you don't feel frightened walking in the Pyrenees. It's just something we've got in our heads and that's why we don't want it to happen."

Mr Lister could also face legal challenges over the plans.

Malcolm Combe, of the Rural Law Research Group at the University of Aberdeen, said the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003, which gives everyone a right of responsible access over most of the land and inland water in Scotland, which could create issues for the reintroduction of dangerous predators.

Mr Combe said: "Although landowners have a certain margin of appreciation as to how to manage their land, management activities cannot unreasonably interfere with access takers exercising their rights responsibly.

"Given the large area involved, it seems possible that any scheme at Alladale that has the effect of restricting access to the whole area could be subjected to a legal challenge."

www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/10409...olves-and-bears.html
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What's this rich landowner up to? 28 Oct 2013 23:13 #2

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Hey look proles, I have 50,000 acres I'm going to stick bears and wolves in.

Sigh.

Tax the twats 10% value on 100 acres, 20% on 200 acres and 30% on 300 and so on.
Then we'll see the bastards 'trickle down' some wealth.
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What's this rich landowner up to? 28 Oct 2013 23:24 #3

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Is this just a novel way of keeping people off "his" land?
Set the controls for the heart of the earth.
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What's this rich landowner up to? 28 Oct 2013 23:27 #4

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Space Bandit wrote:
Is this just a novel way of keeping people off "his" land?

And sitting on it aye.
50,000 fucking acres.
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What's this rich landowner up to? 28 Oct 2013 23:31 #5

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andyh wrote:
Space Bandit wrote:
Is this just a novel way of keeping people off "his" land?

And sitting on it aye.
50,000 fucking acres.

Mind you, there'll be plenty of nature botherers that would want to have a scan...... or maybe even live there with the bears like some highland Timothy Treadwell.
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 06:32 #6

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The bears & wolves would have a great time, dining on Highland cattle & sight seers. Today bears - tomorrow tyrannosauruses. :fresse:
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 07:49 #7

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50k acres is ruddy huge, especially in the context of the british isles. it's massive. 2 packs of 10 and a few yogis? 50k? now thats one ginormous indulgence.
i'd quite like the contract to fence it ;)
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 08:35 #8

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if wolves are like dogs ive seen then that fence better go into the ground some.

so who's watched jurassic park and godzilla? what could possibly go wrong?
Y11
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 08:43 #9

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There are several lodges on the estate offering accommodation and various activities are available including hiking, pony trekking, deer stalking, clay pigeon shooting, angling, mountain biking and safaris using off-road vehicles. ............Funding was originally shared with the National Lottery but with the expiration of that source The European Nature Trust (TENT) has continued to fund it alone. TENT would welcome any contributions either to fund or develop the program.[2]

Conservation my arse. It's for hunting. That's what rich folks do with lots of land.

By calling it conservation he gets taxpayers money while simultaneously overturning their right to access.
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Last Edit: 29 Oct 2013 08:44 by mikey mikey.
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 09:44 #10

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I think you are all missing the point of what he is trying to do. He's challenging the red tape bureaucrats that only serve the rich elite who in turn line their pockets. He's up against the law as it stands...the very same laws that you guys complain about, but at least he's got enough balls to challenge them in my opinion. All you are seeing is a man who by birth has inherited this vast wealth and you immediately put him in the same box as the rest of the elite.

First, Alladale lodge was originally built by an Indian maharajah specifically for the hunting, shooting, fishing set, for profit to the elite. Over the years this practice has ruined the ecology of the region.

Secondly, you are also forgetting that wolves and bears roamed these lands freely. They still do in places like US and people who go into the wilderness and parks know these animals are there. He wants to re-introduce not just these two what were native species, but flora and fauna which were once indigenous to the region. What he's up against is the red tape and law, and lack of......so he has to put up the fencing by law.

I first heard of Paul Lister way back when he got the first stages of his dream in place, and there was no doubt in my mind that he was going to be up against red tape and the elite who want to preserve their money spinning from hunting shooting and fishing. He is challenging that attitude as he can plainly see their 'money in my pocket and to hell with the environment'. So I say three cheers to this eccentric philanthropist who obviously prefers animals and their environment to bureaucratic, rich look after the rich so called human beings.

I ask that you read the following article and watch the film clip, which might help you understand the man and his vision better....we are just lucky he was born into his wealth and he is trying to do something positive with it. He might only see his vision from an ecological/conservation point of view, but he is also challenging the elite.

I can't believe that for people who constantly criticise MSN that you just accept what was very cleverly written in the Torygraph to get the reactions that you have displayed here without doing a little bit of your own research.
The Story
This is the story of Paul Lister’s mission to return five glens and two rivers in Scotland to the wild state they enjoyed at least three centuries ago – in what has been described as the most ambitious, expensive, and controversial ecological project ever undertaken in northern Europe.
The Highlands of Scotland look like the very essence of wildness - primeval and untouched. But solitary trees are all that remains of a very different landscape. Centuries ago, a vast forest of Caledonian pine cloaked the hills: now they’ve been stripped bare. With the timber gone, sheep grazed out many of the fragile native plants – turning a once-diverse landscape into a soggy desert. Crofters have mostly gone: the land is carved up between large estates devoted to hunting shooting and fishing. The Highland landscape looks wild, but in fact it is heavily managed, to raise three animals for sport: salmon, grouse and red deer.

On a visit to untouched forests of Eastern Europe, businessman Paul Lister saw what Scotland might become. But it wasn’t until 2003 that his idea took off. Overnight his fortunes changed as he came into control of millions of pounds made by his father, the founder of the MFI flatpack empire. Lister bought a 23,000-acre estate north of Inverness and set about challenging the centuries-old monopoly of the landscape. His base is Alladale Lodge at the eastern end of his land. Paul wants to create a wilderness reserve, by planting Caledonian pine, juniper, hazel, and round birch to join up the fragmented woodland. He aims to populate his glens with moose, boar, bear and wolf - creatures that were once common here. He thinks that people will pay to come and see this restoration process happen. Paul wants to prove that a rich and self-sustaining mix of native wildlife can make more money and provide more jobs than hunting, shooting and fishing.
Paul’s model is a success story from South Africa. Like the Highlands of Scotland, Shamwari Game Reserve was once over-grazed and impoverished. Local businessman Adrian Gardiner returned the land to its natural healthy state with the help of the animals he brought in. Now leopards, hyenas and lions stop grazing animals – deer and buffalo – from stripping the earth of vegetation. Shamwari faced opposition from neighbours outraged at the prospect of fierce wild animals returning, so a fence was built round its 60,000 acres. Paul Lister has similar plans at Alladale. To protect the 80,000 saplings he has planted, his rangers cull Scotland’s own destructive grazing animals, free-roaming red deer. Paul eventually intends to replace the rangers with natural predators - wolves, lynx and bear.

Paul has supporters. A recent report from top scientific body the Royal Society concludes that wolves could be an economical way to control deer numbers and protect plant species. And Paul receives world class expertise and advice from Oxford Professor David Macdonald. The university’s ecologists are overseeing the reintroduction of the first native species he is bringing back – wild boar. But the very pen Paul builds to contain the boar – for which Paul has a Dangerous Wild Animals licence – illustrates the bureaucratic minefield into which Paul is advancing. The same department that tells him to fence in the boar to protect the public orders him to allow walkers to enter the pen freely.

Things are easier abroad. Paul goes to Sweden in search of moose, European elk, to replace the deer he hopes to lose. But it is the reintroduction of predators that will have the biggest effect – and gives rise to the greatest public anxiety and media scare stories. In Yellowstone National Park in the USA, wolves have been reintroduced without problems. In Scotland ramblers and climbers are up in arms - but not over the presence of wolves, which they have welcomed. The walkers are enraged by Paul’s plans to confine all his animals inside a 3-metre-high, 37-mile-long fence. They see this barrier as contrary to the very first Act of the new Scottish Parliament – the creation of an enforceable right to roam.

That’s not the only law that threatens Paul’s project – though his plan is in the spirit of the recent European Directive on re-wilding. If he encloses Alladale, it may be classed as a zoo. Then he would break the law if he placed prey and predator in the same space. There’s no precedent for a wilderness nature reserve in the UK. Paul goes abroad again to see how this is managed elsewhere. He visits the biggest re-wilding project on the planet, a hundred times larger than his own, run by philanthropists Kristine and Doug Tompkins. They acquire land denuded by cattle-grazing in Argentina, return it to its natural condition, restock it with vanished indigenous species such as ant-eaters, and eventually donate it back to the Government as a national park. Paul’s vision is of a more commercial enterprise. He needs charismatic animals to bring in paying visitors. At last his efforts to import moose pay off. Hercules and Hulda – a bull and a cow – arrive to begin his breeding herd. Perhaps only a maverick like Paul can move the boundaries and wake people up to the urgency and importance of re-wilding.

www.mikebirkhead.com/MooseInTheGlen.html



I've been to Romania albeit over 30 years ago and I agree with everything he says.

:jane:
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 09:47 #11

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Rewilding Remains Controversial In Britain
Published on Jun 2, 2013
In the UK many landscapes that are widely considered to be entirely 'natural' are in fact the unintended by-product of centuries of low intensity agricultural land use. Contrary to popular belief, few of the UK's national parks preserve wilderness, but are instead 'cultural' landscapes created and sustained by rural activity.

In my opinion It's time for parts of britain to be made wild again.

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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 09:55 #12

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:jane:
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 10:21 #13

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deer will tear your trees up. they hate baby trees and will gouge them with their horns and rub that velvet shit off them. you know thats some kind of growth hormone or fastest growing something whatever..

i think its a good idea if the ecosystem supports it
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 13:57 #14

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mikey mikey wrote:
There are several lodges on the estate offering accommodation and various activities are available including hiking, pony trekking, deer stalking, clay pigeon shooting, angling, mountain biking and safaris using off-road vehicles. ............Funding was originally shared with the National Lottery but with the expiration of that source The European Nature Trust (TENT) has continued to fund it alone. TENT would welcome any contributions either to fund or develop the program.[2]

Conservation my arse. It's for hunting. That's what rich folks do with lots of land.

By calling it conservation he gets taxpayers money while simultaneously overturning their right to access.

I think mikey mikey is most likely correct with the hunting as Paul Lister already allows deer stalking.

Hinds £300 per person and £40 per person for rifle hire, a maximum of 3 persons per group.
Stags £500 per person and £40 per person for rifle hire, a maximum of 3 persons per group.

www.alladale.co.uk/activities/deer-stalking/

It's quite ironic that mr Lister made his money through cutting trees down and mashing them up to create flat pack furniture.

Who used to manage that part of Scotland before mr Lister?perhaps he can reintroduce the highlander. ;)
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Last Edit: 29 Oct 2013 14:03 by humanspirit.
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 14:42 #15

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angelchemuel wrote:
I think you are all missing the point of what he is trying to do. He's challenging the red tape bureaucrats that only serve the rich elite who in turn line their pockets. He's up against the law as it stands...the very same laws that you guys complain about, but at least he's got enough balls to challenge them in my opinion. All you are seeing is a man who by birth has inherited this vast wealth and you immediately put him in the same box as the rest of the elite.

:jane:
Jane

Really?

You think he's some kind of altruistic defender of the common man?

He's not proposing opening up his land as some kind of tent city for the homeless!

I put him in the same bracket because until he rejects his inherited fortune and privilege he is in that bracket.
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 18:48 #16

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knobmeup wrote:
50k acres is ruddy huge, especially in the context of the british isles. it's massive. 2 packs of 10 and a few yogis? 50k? now thats one ginormous indulgence.
i'd quite like the contract to fence it ;)

Stick a fence round the rich git and move into the 50000 acres lol.
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 18:54 #17

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^^^
HeeHeeHee. :thumbup:
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 19:00 #18

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I have just e-mailed his estate-office, asking for a small corner to move into. I would be eco and stuff, a wee eco-friendly dwelling, and a veggy plot, no harm in asking eh? x
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 19:04 #19

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jhado wrote:
I have just e-mailed his estate-office, asking for a small corner to move into. I would be eco and stuff, a wee eco-friendly dwelling, and a veggy plot, no harm in asking eh? x

rofl :D
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What's this rich landowner up to? 29 Oct 2013 19:16 #20

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And you could come in useful as bear bait at some point, Jhado. :)
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