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TOPIC: Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95

Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 07 Dec 2013 14:38 #21

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You get your stories from folk in London. I get mine from someone who lived there at the time and was very active. Ms knob. I know who I'll be trusting ;)

That said, you're right that the anc were/are no saints.
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 07 Dec 2013 14:39 #22

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Communist
Catholic Knight of Malta
Zionist
Methodist

Any more contradictory submissions before we spin the bigotry bottle?
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 07 Dec 2013 14:56 #23

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Ab Origine wrote:
Should be interesting to see how his 'peers' react to things like LGBT rights & HIV in Africa now he's not there to shame them anymore.

Ofc, when I say 'interesting', I actually mean fucking horrendous.

:(

Sadly, I can't see things improving soon. :( The HIV rate in sub-Saharan Africa is fucking scary.
Si me puede disparar los conejos, a continuación, puedo disparar fascistas
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 07 Dec 2013 15:01 #24

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A real man of principle and strength, there wont be any hiding place for the anc now, i always felt after apartihed failed they used Mandela to sheild their more unsavory antics.
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 07 Dec 2013 19:57 #25

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Call me a Tory if you want, but I'm no fan of Mandela.
He was behind several bomb attacks on innocent people, and endorsed the use of 'necklacing' to torture & kill people & their families who were simply dissidents. He was behind protection rackets. His government uses racist policies against white people. His government was a totally corrupt corporate state - instead of using money to redress some of the imbalances after apartheid, he spent billions on arms deals and embezzling money from them. He was friends with loads of dictators. I just get the impression the media have spun him into some kind of hero.
Just not my kind of guy!
Set the controls for the heart of the earth.
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 07 Dec 2013 20:49 #26

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"In celebration of the 900th anniversary of the Order of St John, the South African Post Office issued a special miniature sheet and an official commemorative cover on 23 June 1999. The miniature sheet has a R2 face value and features President Nelson Mandela, who is a Knight of Grace of the Order, wearing the mantle of the Order. It also depicts Glenshiel, a stately mansion which has been the National Headquarters of the Order in South Africa since 1950. Situated in the suburb of Westcliff in Johannesburg, Glenshiel is lent to the Order in perpetuity by the Haggie Trust, established by Major Gordon Haggie.

The Order of St John in England was centred around the Priory of Clerkenwell in London in the 12th Century and reached its zenith of power and influence at the beginning of the 16th Century. The dissolution of the monasteries put an end to the Order in England for nearly 300 years, but it was revived in 1831 and was active in attending to the sick and wounded in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. The order was granted a Charter by Queen Victoria in 1888.

Her Royal Highness Queen Elizabeth II is its Sovereign Head. The Grand Prior, currently the Duke of Gloucester, is always a member of the Royal Family. Today there are 20 000 members of the Order worldwide. Membership is granted under the crown to those who strive to fulfil the Order’s ideals."

Nelson Mandela - Order of St John (Sovereign Military Order of Malta)

"For the past three decades, Nelson Mandela has been swathed in global media adulation unlike any other human being in history. No pope, president, king, war hero, movie star, or rock star can boast of having been the beneficiary of such undiluted, unalloyed, and unbroken acclaim. It is common for totalitarian dictators to employ their state-controlled media to create a worshipful cult of personality about themselves — Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Fidel Castro, Kim Il-sung — but outside of their countries there are usually journalists and media organs that will report their crimes, failings, and misdeeds. Mandela has not had to worry about dirty laundry; he is the first individual to achieve a near-universal cult of personality on the global level, thanks entirely to the unparalleled glorification campaign bestowed upon him by the major media in the United States and Europe.

As we reported in 1990 regarding his world tour that year, following his release from prison, his media saturation coverage (and infatuation coverage) was unprecedented — and has not been matched by anyone since. He has received the Nobel Peace Prize, the Presidential Medal of Freedom from the United States, the Lenin Peace Prize from the Soviet Union, and numerous other honors from countries, universities, and institutions.

What is it about Nelson Mandela the man that justifies this global adoration? To be sure, his mien contributes; he is tall, dignified, and statesman-like in appearance, gracious in public speech, and grandfatherly in tone. He does not exude the radical, self-promotional hucksterism of, say, Al Sharpton, Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe, or the ANC’s current head, Jacob Zuma. And, yes, he served many years in prison, but not merely for opposing injustice and racism, as his legions of hagiographers would have us believe. He was a leader of the African National Congress (ANC), an organization designated a terrorist group by the U.S. State Department and many governments and intelligence agencies. He was also a co-founder of the ANC’s Umkhonto we Sizwe (Spear of the Nation), a militant terrorist group within a terrorist group. He was tried and convicted for his terrorist and subversive activities within those organizations (more on which in a moment). "

Mandela: Communist, Terrorist, Liar

"Inspired by Fidel Castro’s 26th of July Movement in the Cuban Revolution, in 1961 Mandela co-founded Umkhonto we Sizwe ("Spear of the Nation", abbreviated MK) with Sisulu and the communist Joe Slovo.

Becoming chairman of the militant group, he gained ideas from illegal literature on guerilla warfare by Mao and Che Guevara. Officially separate from the ANC, in later years MK became the group’s armed wing.[100] Most early MK members were white communists; after hiding in communist Wolfie Kodesh’s flat in Berea, Mandela moved to the communist-owned Liliesleaf Farm in Rivonia, there joined by Raymond Mhlaba, Slovo and Bernstein, who put together the MK constitution.[101] Although Mandela himself denied ever being a Communist Party member, historical research has suggested that he might have been for a short period, starting from the late 1950s or early 1960s.[102]

Operating through a cell structure, the MK agreed to acts of sabotage to exert maximum pressure on the government with minimum casualties, bombing military installations, power plants, telephone lines and transport links at night, when civilians were not present. Mandela noted that should these tactics fail, MK would resort to "guerilla warfare and terrorism." Source

We should question and examine the sacred cows of society, because these issues are very rarely black and white, but values of grey with victories and vices making up a lifetime.

The mainstream media would have you believe the west sheds tears with South Africa over the loss of this man, yet Mandela was on western terrorist watch lists until 2008, and it was the CIA who helped jail him in 1962."

The Legacy of Nelson Mandela: A Dissenting Opinion
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 08 Dec 2013 00:03 #27

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I've just seen a load of dyslexic mourners outside the Nissan main dealer.












:gmc:
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 08 Dec 2013 00:37 #28

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I'm a bit confused on this news.

Not confused on the fact he is dead, although I could swear he died once before


But is he a true hero or just another one of the ptb puppets?

I honestly don't know
Last Edit: 08 Dec 2013 00:39 by dawnbreak.
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 08 Dec 2013 05:13 #29

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knobmeup wrote:
You get your stories from folk in London. I get mine from someone who lived there at the time and was very active. Ms knob. I know who I'll be trusting ;)

That said, you're right that the anc were/are no saints.

And I get my facts from someone who was forced to leave their area. And trust me I dont like someone I knew very well telling me the FACTS about South Africa.
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 08 Dec 2013 05:14 #30

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dawnbreak wrote:
I'm a bit confused on this news.

Not confused on the fact he is dead, although I could swear he died once before


But is he a true hero or just another one of the ptb puppets?

I honestly don't know

PTB puppet.
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 08 Dec 2013 11:17 #31

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dawnbreak wrote:
I'm a bit confused on this news.

Not confused on the fact he is dead, although I could swear he died once before


But is he a true hero or just another one of the ptb puppets?

I honestly don't know

Matter of opinion, Dawny. As with everything in life, you'll have to gather information and form your own. One should never think a certain way just because someone else demands that you do, imo.

For my part, I did follow his work re LGBT rights and HIV very closely, if only because it interested me. It would be fair to say he is responsible in many ways for improving the lot of folks who were suffering a great deal because of a lack of funding/interest/brutal practices and lack of legislation regarding said practices.

The rest is just fluff to me, but no less important I concede.

Some people actually waved flags for Thatcher (*spits*) so, just the way it goes I suppose.
What we are today comes from our thoughts of yesterday, and our present thoughts build our life of tomorrow: Our life is the creation of our mind.

-Buddha
Last Edit: 08 Dec 2013 11:18 by Abs.
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 08 Dec 2013 11:31 #32

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shake wrote:
knobmeup wrote:
You get your stories from folk in London. I get mine from someone who lived there at the time and was very active. Ms knob. I know who I'll be trusting ;)

That said, you're right that the anc were/are no saints.

And I get my facts from someone who was forced to leave their area. And trust me I dont like someone I knew very well telling me the FACTS about South Africa.
Go on then, what be them FACTS?
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 08 Dec 2013 14:14 #33

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Just posting this....not necessarily my view...but quite a bit is historically correct....
On December 5, Mandela died peacefully at home in Johannesburg. Cause of death was respiratory failure. He was 95.
Supporters called him a dreamer of big dreams. His legacy fell woefully short. More on that below.
The Nelson Mandela Foundation, Nelson Mandela Children's Fund, and Mandela Rhodes Foundation issued the following statement:
"It is with the deepest regret that we have learned of the passing of our founder, Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela - Madiba."
"The Presidency of the Republic of South Africa will shortly make further official announcements."
"We want to express our sadness at this time. No words can adequately describe this enormous loss to our nation and to the world."
"We give thanks for his life, his leadership, his devotion to humanity and humanitarian causes."
"We salute our friend, colleague and comrade and thank him for his sacrifices for our freedom."
"The three charitable organisations that he created dedicate ourselves to continue promoting his extraordinary legacy."
He'll be buried according to his wishes in Qunu village. It's where he grew up. In 1943, he joined the African National Congress (ANC). He co-founded its Youth League.
He defended what he later called Thatcherism. On trial for alleged Sabotage Act violations, he said in court:
"The ANC has never at any period of its history advocated a revolutionary change in the economic structure of the country, nor has it, to the best of my recollection, ever condemned capitalist society."
In 1964, he was sentenced to life in prison. He was mostly incarcerated on Robben Island. It's in Table Bay. It's around 7km offshore from Cape Town.
In February 1990, he was released. In 1993, he received the Nobel Peace Prize jointly with South African President FW de Klerk.
Nobel Committee members said it was "for their work for the peaceful termination of the apartheid regime, and for laying the foundations for a new democratic South Africa."
De Klerk enforced the worst of apartheid ruthlessness. In 1994, Mandela was elected president. He served from May 1994 - June 1999.
He exacerbated longstanding economic unfairness. He deserves condemnation, not praise.
John Pilger's work exposed South African apartheid harshness. Doing so got him banned. Thirty years later he returned.
He wanted to see firsthand what changed. He interviewed Mandela in retirement. His "Apartheid Did Not Die" documentary followed.
"Behind the modern face of democracy, the scourges of inequality, unemployment and homelessness persist," he said.
White supremacy remained unchanged. It's no different today. A few blacks share wealth, power and privilege. The vast majority of black society is worse off than under apartheid.
Mandela embraced the worst of neoliberal harshness. His successors follow the same model.
Pilger posed tough questions. He asked Mandela how ANC freedom fighting ended up embracing Thatcherism.
Mandela responded saying:
"You can put any label on it you like. You can call it Thatcherite but, for this country, privatization is the fundamental policy."
Pilger discovered that 80% of South African children suffered poor health. One-fourth under age six were ill nourished.
During Mandela's tenure, more South Africans died from malnutrition and preventable diseases than under apartheid.
Concentrated wealth is more extreme than ever. White farmers control over 80% of agricultural land. They dominate choicest areas.
Pilger said about one-fourth of South Africa's budget goes for interest on odious debt.
He explained how five major corporations control over three-fourths of business interests. They dominate South African life.
Concentrated wealth and power are extreme. Whites control about 90% of national wealth. A select few black businessmen, politicians and trade union leaders benefit with them.
The dominant Anglo-American Corporation is hugely exploitive. Gold mining exacts an enormous human cost.
Pilger said one death and 12 serious injuries accompany each ton of gold mined. One-third of workers contract deadly lung disease. They're left on their own to suffer and die.
Post-apartheid democracy reflects the worst of free market capitalism. It's bereft of freedom. Reform denies it.
Mandela's "unbreakable promise" was forgotten. In 1990, two weeks before freed from prison, he said:
"The nationalization of the mines, banks and monopoly industries is the policy of the ANC (and changing) our views...is inconceivable."
"Black economic empowerment is a goal we fully support and encourage, but in our situation state control of certain sectors of the economy is unavoidable."
In 1955, ANC's Freedom Charter declared "South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white, and that no government can justly claim authority unless it is based on the will of all the people."
"The people shall govern! All national groups shall have equal rights!"
"The people shall share in the country's wealth!"
"The land shall be shared among those who work it!"
"All shall be equal before the law!"
"All shall enjoy equal human rights!"
"There shall be work and security!"
"The doors of learning and culture shall be opened!"
"There shall be houses, security and comfort!"
"There shall be peace and friendship!"
"Let all people who love their people and their country now say, as we say here:
THESE FREEDOMS WE WILL FIGHT FOR, SIDE BY SIDE, THROUGHOUT OUR LIVES, UNTIL WE HAVE WON OUR LIBERTY"
Liberation was supposed to be economic, social and political. White worker wages were manyfold more than black ones. White mine workers earned 10 times more than blacks.
Post-apartheid promised change never materialized. Mandela embraced the worst of free market orthodoxy.
Before his election, journalist Anthony Sampson said he agreed "to reduce the deficit, to high interest rates and to an open economy, in return for access to an IMF loan of $850 million, if required."
It comes with strings. Structural adjustments mandate harshness. They require privatization of state enterprises, mass layoffs, deregulation, deep social spending cuts, unrestricted market access for Western corporations, corporate tax cuts, marginalizing trade unionism, and harsh crackdowns on nonbelievers.
Mandela told South African workers to "tighten (their) belts."
"(A)ccept low wages so that investment would flow."
"We must rid ourselves of the culture of entitlement that leads to the expectation that the government must promptly deliver whatever it is that we demand."
"Apartheid never died in South Africa," said Pilger. "It inspired a world order upheld by force and illusion."
Mandela stood at the crossroads. He seemed poised to lead a new direction. His popularity and bigger than life persona empowered him.
He had a unique chance to reject neoliberal orthodoxy. ANC candidates swept 1994 elections.
Mandela became president. A peaceful transition was achieved. Privileged white interests maintained real power.
Mandela's agenda could have been different. He could followed what Chavez successfully instituted in Venezuela.
He chose not to. Black South Africans paid dearly. Mandela's legacy remains tainted. He relegated his people to horrific post-apartheid conditions.
"Just call me a Thatcherite," he said. He adopted free market fundamentalist harshness. Neoliberal shock therapy followed. It works the same way wherever it's introduced.
The toll on black South Africans was devastating. He and other ANC leaders bear full responsibility. People living on less than $1 a day doubled.
From 1991 - 2002, unemployment soared to 48%. It remains disturbingly high. Officially it's around 26%. It's much higher.
Youth unemployment exceeds 50%. About 80% of unemployed young people never worked or had jobs longer than a year.
During the first decade of ANC rule, around two million South Africans lost homes. Another one million lost farms. Shack dwelling increased 50%.
One-fourth or more of South Africans have no running water or electricity. Around 40% of schools have no electricity.
About 50% of South Africans have inadequate sanitation. Around 40% have no telephones.
HIV/AIDS remains a major problem. South Africa has the world's largest number of affected people. Officially it's over five million. Unofficially it's higher.
It's more than in North America, Latin America, Eastern Europe and Central Asia combined.
Post-apartheid, life expectancy declined by 13 years. In 2011, it was 58, according to the World Health Organization. It ranks below Afghanistan at 60 years.
Overall South African conditions remain deplorable. They exceed the worst of apartheid harshness. Neoliberal exploitation exacted a horrific toll.
Mandela could have made a difference. He chose Thatcherism over economic fairness. Betrayal defines his legacy.
He relegated millions of black South Africans to permanent destitution, unemployment, hunger, malnutrition, homelessness, lost futures and early deaths.
His bigger than life persona is undeserved. So are eulogies praising his accomplishments. They reflect figments of historical revisionism.
rense.com/general96/mandel.html

:jane:
"love it better"
the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 08 Dec 2013 16:40 #34

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dawnbreak wrote:
I'm a bit confused on this news.

Not confused on the fact he is dead, although I could swear he died once before


But is he a true hero or just another one of the ptb puppets?

I honestly don't know

Only the good die young. Or how about this? Of course Mandela was another elite puppet. Think of all of the genuinely good people who worked for the betterment of mankind, and tried to expose the secret rulers of the world who were then bumped off. How old was Mandela again?
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 08 Dec 2013 16:51 #35

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68 if you discount the 27 years hard a labour.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 08 Dec 2013 17:25 #36

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So oldies are puppets and da yoof are fo shizzle?
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 10 Dec 2013 13:54 #37

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wow

Barrack Omba leading the funeral

seems odd

and Gordon Brown too (although his words did actually seem like he knew mandela and liked what the guy was doing)
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 10 Dec 2013 14:03 #38

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the eulogy should have been delivered by a member of his family not BOB
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 10 Dec 2013 14:07 #39

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and Desmond tutu can fuck right off with his religious beliefs when he does nothing to stop the paedophile's in his church
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Nelson Mandela, hero of South Africa, dies at 95 10 Dec 2013 14:47 #40

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I never liked Mandela, ex Terrorist, admitted throwing grenades at buses and putting burning tyres on peoples necks, SA is still a hell hole and getting worse all the time, mind you much of Africa is exactly the same...look at Zimbabwe, the elite cream off the money and the peasants are starving, Ditto SA.
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