thoreau wrote:
I think mike has a point about the consumerism stuff - it intrigues me that we can accuse 'elites' of showing no empathy whilst at the same time consuming products made through slave labour, meat raised in conditions that are horrific, beauty products tested on animals etc etc.
I think that one of the most important (to me) changes I have made in my life is to learn as many new skills as possible so that I can make do and mend as much as possible.
The world is so much more disposable - products used to come with a lifetime guarantee - but there is little profit to be had from quality products that last.
I am what is considered as poor - but being financially poor does not necessitate ethical poverty - it all depends on how one prioritises.
I am by no means perfect - on occasion I do buy things that are utterly frivolous (usually to support local crafters) but through making very conscious decisions about where the very little money I have goes i feel as if I am doing 'my bit'.
I have always maintained that meat eaters should be prepared to kill and cook their meals at least once, should visit an abattoir and a battery farm - perhaps feel what it is like to travel in container lorries - so that the distance between the animal and the plate can be bridged. Not in an effort to stop people eating meat but in the hope that more people would actually stop avoiding thinking about how their food is raised and killed. I feel similarly towards consumers - to shop in primark or own an apple product you should spend a week walking in the shoes of the person paid a pittance and with dangerous work environments so that the human cost of cheap products is not just ignored.
As for hitler v stalin - both were despicable human beings imho but I cannot think of one government/leader that does not have the blood of innocents on their hands.
Personally I'm sick to the back teeth of this kind of holier than though spouting.
For a kick off, Mike raised the sanctimonious point that (re clothes) people are not bothering to learn how to make their own. I've asked if he makes his own, and he neglected to answer. That, I suspect, is because the answer is 'no', so he knows that admitting so will reveal his hypocrisy.
I've made my own knitwear for my family in the past, but guess what. When you're working full time and raising a family, it's a bit tricky to squeeze everything in. It was easy enough to knit baby clothes while on maternity leave, but the rest of the time, not so easy. Plus, in my experience, it costs more to buy decent wool to make stuff with than to go out and buy a similar finished garment. Yes that's right, it's dearer! You can buy cheap yarns, but they're either stringy and shite, and careful washing renders them unfit to be seen in, or when you look at the composition, many man-made ones contain carcinogenic properties.
Had a good go at sewing - made a pig's ear of it. It's not something I could do well. But jolly well done if you can. Just don't look down on those who can't, eh. It makes you look smug.
I wonder how much of the reasonably priced fabrics on the shelf originate from the same Bangladeshi textile mills used by the likes of Primark.
We all make do and mend, surely? I don't know where Mike gets this idea that we all go out on shopping sprees to Primark every weekend. I don't know anyone who does that and never have.
And as for buying Apple products etc, etc, I for one only became aware of the working conditions they're produced in AFTER buying an Ipod a good few years ago.
The meat eating thing has been covered on another thread - I've made my views known on there already.
It's all very well talking of ethical poverty Thoreau, but if you go and buy cheap stuff, you're probably funding poor working conditions. As it happens, when you buy expensive stuff, you're often funding poor working conditions too. If you haven't got much money, there aren't a lot of alternatives for where to shop. And as for the majority of retailers and brands, we (or at least definitely I) have no idea what all the nefarious practices and unholy alliegiances and sins against humanity they're covertly guilty of! Mike knows what I'm talking about, or he wouldn't have dodged the question about where he shops twice. Because he knows he's a fucking hypocrite. Not for shopping in places that are guilty of all sorts, but for condemning others for doing it. Because the reality is, there's little or no alternative.
As for Mike's assertion that we're mass murderers who are far worse than Hitler if we shop in Primark (which I don't as it happens, but not for any ethical reasons) what a lot of utter verbal manure. By the way, I asked the question of whether people generally were aware of the working conditions of manufacturers supplying Primark prior to the disaster that happened about 3 weeks ago. That question was also ignored. I for one was not. Perhaps I'm guilty of not doing in-depth research when I need to buy something to ensure it's ethical. Call me Adolf!
Don't flounce little Jhado. Stay, and I'll knit you a new fishing rod. 
Hello lovely lady, is this seat taken? 
