mild_peril wrote:
Shit it...we've been rumbled, 'gang'.

btw.
We'll never develop and grow or refine how we progress if we are disallowed or dissuaded from speaking openly about our concerns.

Threads like this should be seen as constructive airing rather than some attempt to gag people.
Requests for restraint isn't gagging and and dismissing those requests isn't considerate of others.

There's a spot in the middle we need to get to is all.

feather wrote:
Feather, what you're quite clearly failing to grasp is that Icke and co. have mistreated, purposely confused, and abused people and their trust, taken their hard earned money and sneered at them when they dared to question.

There will be hundreds, if not thousands, of people who have been left damaged by the sheer incompetence and arrogance of Icke and his shitty cohorts.

If you think these are fairly 'minor transgressions', then maybe I read you all wrong.

You may well be correct MP mate.

I never bought his shtick in the first place so perhaps I'm taking a harsh view of those who did and left themselves open to that.

When I walk into an electrical store for example I do so with the fore knowledge that a salesman WILL attempt to sell me shit I don't need and I act accordingly to resist his efforts.

If I walked in a for a packet of batteries and walk out with a 60" plasma with full surround sound and 5yrs extended warranty then I have to concede I played a part in being taken for a ride.

ye famous wise ones, I would have you finally throw off entirely the skin of the lion!

The skin of the beast of prey, the speckled skin, and the dishevelled locks of the investigator, the searcher, and the conqueror!

Ah! for me to learn to believe in your "conscientiousness," ye would first have to break your venerating will.

Conscientious—so call I him who goeth into God-forsaken wildernesses, and hath broken his venerating heart.

In the yellow sands and burnt by the sun, he doubtless peereth thirstily at the isles rich in fountains, where life reposeth under shady trees.

But his thirst doth not persuade him to become like those comfortable ones: for where there are oases, there are also idols.

Hungry, fierce, lonesome, God-forsaken: so doth the lion-will wish itself.

Free from the happiness of slaves, redeemed from deities and adorations, fearless and fear-inspiring, grand and lonesome: so is the will of the conscientious.

In the wilderness have ever dwelt the conscientious, the free spirits, as lords of the wilderness; but in the cities dwell the well-foddered, famous wise ones—the draught-beasts.

For, always do they draw, as asses—the people's carts!

and thus he spake.

I have followed Icke for very many years. When I say "followed" , I mean with my eyes wide open!

That he is flawed and somewhat naive, I have never been in doubt. But I try not to let that blind me to everything he says.

There is much bitterness and reaction on here about the DIF mods, TPV begging etc. But we should, at least arguably, not let that determine what SZ is about.

feather wrote:
I totally understand what you're saying.

But if you then got home with your 60" plasma and realised it was just an empty shell, you'd want answers wouldn't you? Even if you were coerced in to buying it in the first place.

But this is people's emotions we're talking about, and plenty of people have been left feeling used and abused. And although there have been a handful that have made it over here and made their feelings known, and able to put the pieces back together a little, there will be a vastly higher number that haven't.

Icke is damaging more people by the day, and in my not so humble opinion, the Icke dialogue should stay open and free - as it should with any *researcher* that is proposing to know, and selling, some kind of truth.

Zara_T wrote:
Fucking hell, I was just thinking exactly that!

My brethren, wherefore is there need of the lion in the spirit? Why sufficeth not the beast of burden, which renounceth and is reverent?

To create new values—that, even the lion cannot yet accomplish: but to create itself freedom for new creating—that can the might of the lion do.

To create itself freedom, and give a holy Nay even unto duty: for that, my brethren, there is need of the lion.

To assume the ride to new values—that is the most formidable assumption for a load-bearing and reverent spirit. Verily, unto such a spirit it is preying, and the work of a beast of prey.

As its holiest, it once loved ‘Thou-shalt’: now is it forced to find illusion and arbitrariness even in the holiest things, that it may capture freedom from its love: the lion is needed for this capture.

But tell me, my brethren, what the child can do, which even the lion could not do? Why hath the preying lion still to become a child?

Innocence is the child, and forgetfulness, a new beginning, a game, a self-rolling wheel, a first movement, a holy Yea.

Aye, for the game of creating, my brethren, there is needed a holy Yea unto life: its own will, willeth now the spirit; his own world winneth the world's outcast.

Just checking, is this an icke related thread?

mild_peril wrote:
Let's deal with the last sentence first please because this is where a myth is taking root.

No-one is advocating that Icke topics be off-limits. That never happened, ............................ ever.

The fact that a couple of days ago I cited in excess of 8,000 results from a search of the word "Icke" should be testimony that;
a: It's faaaar from a restricted topic

b: Maybe, just maybe, it's dominance has got out of hand and threatens to strangle this community.

c: It reinforces the notion that this community is indeed prioritised on discussing and being anti-Icke.

I put it to everyone that is a damn negative view of a future for SZ and a real shame and waste of potential.
Are we to be shaped by a bunch of incompetences and ingratiates lining their own pockets or do we show it can be done differently?

Back to the plasma purchase........
Damn right I'd want answers!
But I wouldn't go banging the counter in the butchers shop demanding my voice be heard.
Take it to them. do it via email, or the tpv sites or facebook, Youtube, Icke books .......wherever they are.
No-one here can resolve your beef with them.

I don't mean that in a stfu way. I mean that as genuine constructive advice.
If you desire real resolution, expose them where their customers go.

Above all though please be careful guys, WE are not at war with each other.
We have a chance to build something better.

feather wrote:
I don't think this aspect could possibly be made any clearer...

He's an easy target, and the only thing that seems to pull all members together, apart from that do we all agree with anything else, all the threads are disputed, except anti-icke.

It's not just Icke though is it, it's his crowd, the forum and their presence on the internet, it requires to be constantly challenged, TPV requires to be constantly exposed.
It's the Devils work they do. robbing and coning, we know what goes on, so surely we need to have it as a bit of a mission to pour water on them at every opportunity.

I think we need to have a billboard on the front page of SZ ''Icke is a con man'' with a link to all the threads.

And no one was saying anything to the contrary. I was personally saying that the dialogue should be open and free. I.e. without people consistently attempting to steer the dialogue, and letting it blossom, and die out, organically.

It should also be telling us that this is affecting a lot of people, and shouldn't be merrily brushed under the carpet.

If you don't want to see it through, then just step away from it. Problem absolutely solved.

It really doesn't, and you're now beginning to blow it all out of proportion.

Well, it's clearly not, and has only had a recent spurt due to Icke shitting on people again, and people begin to search for answers.

But why do you have to be 'anti' something, just because you want the truth of a situation out in the open? And do I need to point out that the forum advertises itself as 'An Alternative David Icke Forum'?

They're rhetorical questions by the way, but feel free to answer them if you wish.

No, the community will be shaped by the people here and what's on their minds. And maybe you should take that up with the management here as to why they got posters to come from the DIF to here.

Mate, have you been in a cave for the past month or so?

The entire reason that people have ultimately landed here, or facebook, or wherever else, is because they are completely blanked and ignored.

In other words, stfu on here.

No one is saying we're at war with each other, for fuck sake.

Why just not let the forum grow organically and let people find their own way, instead of trying to steer consensus in a particular direction? That kind of thinking has always confused me no end.

And also, if you would like to see Icke being discussed less and less on the forum, why do you get involved in the dialogue to begin with? Mind = fucking blown.

And anyway, apologies for multi quoting you, but you left me with little choice.

I vote b
"b: Maybe, just maybe, it's dominance has got out of hand and threatens to strangle this community."

Barnfish wrote:
I personally vote for thinking for oneself and coming to our own conclusions.

But it's like I said in my reply to Feather, if we just let things blossom organically, they will also die out organically.

Well, I've chipped in my thoughts.
I'm not going to 'stir' things anymore
I'll still say I find it all oddly fascinating the degree of apparent hurt experienced but I'll leave you to get on with sharing that uninterrupted.

mild_peril wrote:
I hope we do self regulate, but if it continues the way it has been I would at least like to see DI threads go into one place on the forum. But I am a neat person

Zara, unless you're Friedrich Nietzsche reincarnated, how about you make some comment yourself? 4 posts so far, across 3 threads, and all of them direct quotations - seems a bit odd if you don't mind y saying so. And even if you do mind my saying so, it still seems a bit odd.