Ok in relation to the money thread I was interested in learning a bit more about TVP so I went to their website:
thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project/faq

For the purpose of this thread I think it we should draw exclusively from the FAQ section and other VP literature from their website, if anyone here currently supports the VP they can quote from the FAQ and elaborate on the answers given by Fresco.

If anyone disagrees with any points in the answers to the FAQ, or wants further clarification they should quote from the FAQ along with their problems, thoughts or criticisms.
Ideally if there are people here who disagree then both can use the same sources on that website to argue their case, or both agree on additional sources from which to draw criticisms, before posting them in this thread?

To get started I will use Dubmeup's post from the money thread:From the FAQ
Question #11
What is the single most important aspect of the project?
Answer:
Now Dub has the opportunity to state whether he agrees with this answer or whether he disagrees and if so why.



footnote:This is kind of an experiment so if you have criticisms, or ideas for how to improve this thread feel free to bring them up as a footnote and I will edit the parameters of the op.

As chair person for this discussion I will try and retain a completely neutral position to both sides.

Having had TVP come up last night in the money thread, like yourself I've revisited the place today for a root about.

Currently my feelings are like this. I'd like to disassociate the Money is totally unnecessary thread from TVP as much as possible.

I absolutely 100% agree with Fresco that currency has to go. There's a few other bits and bobs I agree with him on but the majority of his ideas are things that'd probably push me into taking up arms at some point if his vision became the way of the world.

Ref: Circular cities. Sorry Jaques but get fucked

So, I may agree that the quoted part that Gue gave is the "stated" most important aspect but I think I'd be inclined to disagree with it being the most important "actual" aspect. To my mind after refreshing my mind today, social engineering would seem to be the predominant feature.

dubmeup wrote:
It's the Burgess concentric model!

There is some good stuff to be gleaned from it though,,, geothermal energy, et3, not sure about his ideas on food supplies is but urban vertical hydroponic grow spaces can be easily used to provide perfectly natural, healthy food to whole cities at a fraction of the cost and without the waste of conventional farming, and they can be anywhere in the world.
The mock ups look a bit tacky but whatever would get built would surely be by a consensus?

Space Bandit wrote:
That's not really the impression I got when I rooted about there today.

Jacques Fresco certainly does put forward a vision, and nothing revolutionary can be achieved without a vision, but a vision requires the effort of those who share it to become material.
There are currently no channels in which to apply efforts for the attainment of the abolition of money according to the Venus project, so this suggests bar luck, attempts at political participation or leading unified mass appropriation of the state, the aims are destined to remain a brilliant vision of what is possible?

Question #42
In your opinion, when will such towns be constructed?
answer:
So maybe for the money thread we could look at what has been achieved by past attempts at redefining human conceptions of exchange? What steps were made by past organisations to achieve the similar visions to TVP.

Guevarista wrote: Anyone else getting what I'm getting?

dubmeup wrote:
But isn't his idea that it would only happen when people want it to?
I don't know to be honest - I've seen all the Zeitgeist stuff & a few related bits & what's been talked about on DIF, & I think the idea in principle is a good one, but I don't know loads about it;. if a transition phase were to occur that would lead into this type of concept, it would be well beyond our lifetime, You certainly just couldn't change the world instantly to be like that.. people wouldn't have a clue what to do with themselves after being conditioned into a lifetime of thinking that they must slave themselves to the bone to make ends meet.
Automating stuff & making things as good as are scientifically possible with duration and ecosystem in mind are winning ideas for me though. I just think perhaps TVP goes a bit further than necessary in terms of what could be done now practically.

lol @ dub

The cities don't have to be circular, don't have to be domes, don't have to be above ground and everyone doesn't have to live in them.
In fact, a pile of people would have to live outside them or in rural communities or whatever just as it is now.

Space Bandit wrote:
The first step would be an experiment to prove some basic theory and also to fine tune inevitable mistakes imho.
Without that then there is no transition ever, nevermind a long way off.

What worries me is that we may lose our ability to do anything like this shortly anyway...

Space Bandit wrote: I think it goes Wayyyyyyy further. Tbh having gone back there today I can kind of see where Steevo is coming from with his distrust of it. To my mind, Fresco has spent years honing his own personal angle on it, to the point of modelled cities, transport systems etc when it perhaps would have been more useful to step away from the drawing board and CAD software for a bit. What he has ended up with is something that I'd personally ditch most of.
andyh wrote:
Yes, I'm sure we can all see where you're coming from there

dubmeup wrote:
I don't see the point in the distrust in it... it's so unlikely to happen that it would be difficult to create an agenda behind it that was worthwhile... I just see it as some guy with some good ideas and taking it as far as he can... anything like that is bound to cause criticism & scepticism, but it's certainly not something to disregard because there is some valuable stuff to be taken from it imo.

Space Bandit wrote:
Agreed, he has some very sound ideas and they're certainly worthy of note and building upon. It's just that when I look at the whole package he presents, I can see Steevo's POV.

For example, I for one wouldn't be moving to a circle city or anything like it (just to go with the one thing I've already mentioned). I get the feeling that if TVP became the way of the world and I chose to live out in the sticks in a stone house with a fire burning coppiced wood, a time would come when I was seen as the Savage in BNW. If the city were to become successful and expand into the area I chose to dwell, would that expansion mean that I was removed from that land for the 'greater good'?
The circle city, to my mind doesn't respect nature at all. In order for such a thing to be built, any trace of the uppy downy inny outy loveliness of Mummy N would need to be removed a la landscaping. The model aims to build a way of life respectful of nature by destroying the nature of it's location. Imposing it's will on the landscape in a totalitarian way. Unlike what he have now which tends to work within and around the topology of the place if you get my drift.

Space Bandit wrote:
Same view here. I can't see the elite ever wanting it, it flies in the face of everything they stand for.
They want us brainchipped and 100% digital money and movement towards one world government.
The digital money is just around the corner now, its pretty much game over tbh.

andyh wrote: Yes, perhaps we are having this discussion 20 years too late. Perhaps we'd be better advised to be discussing practical ways of subverting it and forming guerilla resistance networks....

dubmeup wrote:
lol well, how to run away from it all tbh.
I don't see anyone confronting it without a million people armed to the teeth and of all 1 intent.

andyh wrote: Sad but true.

dubmeup wrote:
It's not about "trust" dub, it's about the facts (which you have obviously read up on). It's about freedom. We either want freedom or we dont. And youre right, the VP is about totalatarianism (is that spelt right ?).

andyh wrote:
Digital money is a stepping stone to carbon credits.

They have already started building the Venus project in Dubai by the looks of it :-

www.google.co.uk/search?q=venus+project&...271&biw=1018&bih=597

Steevo wrote: Well they already have carbon taxes.

LOL!

andyh wrote:
I'm on about carbon CREDITS that will replace the current monetary system soon (if the PTB get their wicked way).