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TOPIC: Finland Basic Income

Finland Basic Income 17 Jan 2017 15:23 #1

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www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38593513
"I was so surprised when I got the letter, and a bit sceptical too," says Liisa Ronkainen, one of 2,000 Finns chosen for a government experiment to provide unemployed people with a basic income.
Out of work for half a year, Liisa, 26 and from Helsinki, has been looking for a job without success.
"While I'm unemployed I will only get €36 more per month with the basic income. I've always been positive about the idea, though, so it was nice to be one of those who were chosen."
Basic income has frequently been suggested as a way of cutting welfare bureaucracy as well as poverty.
But one of the main reasons why Finland's social insurance agency Kela is trying out the monthly tax-free payment of €560 (£490; $600) is to see whether providing a basic income will make the unemployed more eager to go into short-term jobs.
Finland has some 213,000 unemployed, a higher rate than its Nordic neighbours, and a working population of 2,413,000. Short-term contracts here have steadily become a key feature of Finland's labour market.

The benefit system in many cases provides people with little incentive to go into low-income jobs because welfare is generally cut back if you start earning.
"Every single euro that a person earns diminishes his or her social benefits," says Olli Kangas, head of society relations at Kela.
"In some cases an unemployed person is afraid of losing their benefits in the future, if he or she receives a temporary employment."

The idea behind the basic income experiment is that any earnings would be a supplement; €560 a month may not sound much but it is a start.
"The government wants to see if it's possible to eliminate at least the worst disincentives to work," says Mr Kangas.

Randomly selected from Finland's unemployed, the 2,000 taking part in the experiment were all receiving the lowest rate of unemployment benefit. After tax, it was little different from the €560 they now receive monthly in basic income.
The difference is that they will receive it without filling in a form and irrespective of whether they get a job or not over the next two years.
For Liisa Ronkainen, already looking for work for several months, it is certainly an attractive idea.
"Now that I will get a salary in addition to the basic income I might try even harder," she suggests.
And there was a similar message from another of the participants, Juha Jarvinen, who has been out of work for five years but now hopes to start a new business. "For my part, the basic income will mean I can escape enslavement and feel that I am a functioning citizen again," he told Finnish public broadcaster YLE.
The trial has aroused interest worldwide, because it will answer the burning questions about how people out of work will respond to the idea of a basic income.
Some might decide to acquire more education or change their career, to make themselves more attractive to the labour market. Others might seek to start a business.
But there is always the chance that it could be used as an excuse to take it easy and work as little as possible.
Cutting bureaucracy
None of those chosen was given a chance to say no, so the outcome of the project will not be slanted. And no-one will receive less money than before.
As for cutting red tape, the prime objective behind the pilot, there will be a partial improvement for those taking part.
Most of those involved receive additional social benefits in the form of housing benefit or a higher unemployment benefit because they have children. The form procedure to get these will remain unchanged during the experiment.
But for Finnish authorities bureaucracy will diminish considerably. If any of the 2,000 start studying, get a job or lose a job or even develop a long-term illness, they will not have to pass the information on. Their basic income will not change.

As the experiment takes hold, researchers will watch how the chosen group fare in comparison with the rest of the country's unemployed.
They have already suggested expanding the experiment, either to increase the number of unemployed people taking part or to widen it to other groups in society.
The Finnish centre-right government of Prime Minister Juha Sipila has provided €20m to the project and the research group says most of the money will remain untouched until the start of 2018.
"This is just a start," says Olli Kangas. "In 2018 we would like to start something better."
As for the cost of the experiment, that depends on how many of the 2,000 will find work.
The basic income will initially be covered by the money that would have been paid out in unemployment benefit anyway. Costs will only start to build up when people get a job.
Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Apologies for the format of the article, but all media insist on putting 27 different links and videos in the middle of articles nowadays.
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Finland Basic Income 17 Jan 2017 15:31 #2

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I think the idea is fine, but how would that work in reality, no idea... At least as long as our "dear leaders" keep on spending money on useless stupid shite and stealing or selling out all they can. Add in fuckton of immigrants to feed and ever growing unemployment, I have absolutely no idea who's gonna pay all that? Our so called welfare state cannot keep functioning like this anyway. its unsustainable, and if the job market doesn't take a full 180 degree turn, there's zero chance for basic income system to work. Of course this is just my opinion and I'm not an expert about these matter.

And there seems to be the usual lies mixed in, 213,000 unemployed is bullshit, its over 350k at the moment and the actual unemployment is even higher. The statistics do not quite count everyone who's doing some government sanctioned stuff which on paper counts as "work."

I don't know what else to say about this, if they make it actually work, it could be very good thing as unemployed would be able to make a better living (=spend more= more tax money which runs the whole show here.) Also the working conditions should be made better and small businesses need to be made an actual option for more people.
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Finland Basic Income 17 Jan 2017 16:28 #3

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
"This is just a start," says Olli Kangas. "In 2018 we would like to start something better."
.


That's somewhat confusing given that if it's just started, then how could they possibly know it's going to work, whilst in the same breath claiming the next thing on the horizon (a mere year later) is going to be 'something better'? :conf:
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Finland Basic Income 17 Jan 2017 19:07 #4

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More evidence that this wonderful economic model just doesn't ahem...work. A model that is bringing on ever more temporary and zero hour contracts. A model that uses things like tax credits to subsidise business. A model where people are essentially there to be picked up, used and then put down at the whim of um, market forces. Etc.
Some will no doubt do well from this and claim it to be a great idea as a result, without considering any of the above.
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Finland Basic Income 17 Jan 2017 19:20 #5

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Don't get a good unemployment crisis go to waste, there's plenty of people to profit from and then dump by the side of the road later when the cow doesn't milk any more. That's the spirit of the times in here.... And when things are already going bad enough they come up with these bright new ideas. Great, but who's paying for it?

Next generations will once again thank our dear leaders in the future for spending their heritage before they were even born.
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Finland Basic Income 17 Jan 2017 22:18 #6

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Is this being modelled along the lines of the Swiss way, which is to ensure that everyone has a good basic minimum to live on (even benefit claimants) as it motivates people to work better and for higher standards than the "beat them with a stick to get the carrot" method here and in the USA, where people give up at having to slog endlessly just to (not quite) make ends meet?
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Finland Basic Income 18 Jan 2017 08:14 #7

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That's the idea.... And the idea itself is very good. I just have no idea how the government could make it happen unless they stop doing what they're always doing.
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