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Masonic Forum of Light :: General :: Esoteric Masonic discussion :: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry?
Author Topic: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry? (Read 1,284 times)
mattjtayl
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Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry?
« Thread Started on Apr 15, 2010, 5:33pm »
One order that seemed like Masonry that I have looked at is the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. They will have a temple within 120 miles of me, according to their website one is coming soon to Chicago. Initation fee & yearly dues is combined total of $97. I probably would never have the cash to go through it, but if I did is it worth it and has anyone gone through it? How is it different than masonry? It looks similar to the esoteric teachings in the Scottish Rite.
Anyone a member or have been a member of the H.O.G.D.?
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magusmasonica
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #1 on Apr 15, 2010, 5:54pm »
The ceremonial work of the Golden Dawn is very Masonic in structure.
The practical work not so much. The Golden Dawn system IMHO is very, very good.
You really don't have to join any order to get a taste of it though. You can get the Golden Dawn book by Israel Regardie. Also, you can go to
www.osogd.org and download all of their materials for free. Study them and if they resonate with you then make the steps to join a group.
IMHO.
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« Last Edit: Apr 15, 2010, 7:13pm by magusmasonica » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged
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goatrider
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #2 on Apr 15, 2010, 6:20pm »
Apr 15, 2010, 5:54pm, magusmasonica wrote:The piratical work not so much.
They alllow pirates? Cool.
arrrr
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arsihsis
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #3 on Jun 6, 2010, 6:47pm »
The founders of the Golden Dawn, Dr. William Wynn Westcott, Dr. William Robert Woodman, & Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers were all Master Masons, & some of the Formulae of the Masonic rituals found their way into the Golden Dawn on that account. For instance, the 5=6 ritual of te Golden Dawn is, like the Master Degree in Masonry, is based on the same Formula, that of IAO.
hermetic.com/crowley/book-4/chap5.html
P.D. Newman
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KNOs1s
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #4 on Jun 6, 2010, 7:09pm »
I like pre-Crowley G.D. myself.
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arsihsis
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #5 on Jun 6, 2010, 7:14pm »
Jun 6, 2010, 7:09pm, KNOs1s wrote:I like pre-Crowley G.D. myself.
How is pre & post-Crowley Golden Dawn any different? Crowley played no part in any aspect of the Golden Dawn's constitution other than simply being a member. You might be thinking of the O.T.O., whose constitution was completely altered by Crowley after he was made OHO.
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #6 on Jun 6, 2010, 7:33pm »
Crowley was not as influential with the G.D. as with O.T.O., yet his influence was felt.
From:
www.themystica.com/mystica/articl....olden_dawn.html
"In 1898 Aleister Crowley was initiated into the society and progressed rapidly through the degrees. The next year, 1899, he went to Paris and compelled Mathers to initiate him into the Second Order to which Mathers complied. The London lodge, under Farr, rejected this initiation. Crowley returned to England as Mathers' "Envoy Extraordinary," in 1900, attempting to control the quarters of the Second Order. Crowley wore a black mask, Highland dress, and gilt dagger. The staged attempt was in vain, for it was rebuffed.
Eventually both Crowley and Mathers were thrown out of the society as a result of the uneasy alliance between them which deteriorated. Crowley considered himself a superior magician compared to Mathers. Allegedly this led to magical warfare between the two men. Mathers sent an astral vampire to attack Crowley. Crowley then counterattacked with an army of demons led by Beelzebub. After this latter attack was launched against the quarters of the Second Order the London lodge expelled both men. Mathers received no compensation for his efforts; but, Crowley retaliated by publishing some of the Golden Dawn in his magazine, The Equinox.
Then W. B. Yeats assume control of the Second Order. He did attempt to restore order to the society, but it was so splintered that Yeats' efforts were nearly fruitless. Yeats played a prominent part in the conflict between Crowley and Mathers. After the expulsion of both men Yeats took charge of the Ordo Rosae Rubeae et Aureae Crucis and also became the Imperator of the Isis-Urania Temple Outer Order."
It's granted his influence was slight, yet perceptible. Yeats was a great poet. The two did not often get along. Despite the wearing of a mask, Yeats and the others saw easily through Crowley's guise of deceit.
« Last Edit: Jun 6, 2010, 7:43pm by KNOs1s » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged
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arsihsis
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #7 on Jun 6, 2010, 8:36pm »
Jun 6, 2010, 7:33pm, KNOs1s wrote:Crowley was not as influential with the G.D. as with O.T.O., yet his influence was felt.
From:
www.themystica.com/mystica/articl....olden_dawn.html
"In 1898 Aleister Crowley was initiated into the society and progressed rapidly through the degrees. The next year, 1899, he went to Paris and compelled Mathers to initiate him into the Second Order to which Mathers complied. The London lodge, under Farr, rejected this initiation. Crowley returned to England as Mathers' "Envoy Extraordinary," in 1900, attempting to control the quarters of the Second Order. Crowley wore a black mask, Highland dress, and gilt dagger. The staged attempt was in vain, for it was rebuffed.
Eventually both Crowley and Mathers were thrown out of the society as a result of the uneasy alliance between them which deteriorated. Crowley considered himself a superior magician compared to Mathers. Allegedly this led to magical warfare between the two men. Mathers sent an astral vampire to attack Crowley. Crowley then counterattacked with an army of demons led by Beelzebub. After this latter attack was launched against the quarters of the Second Order the London lodge expelled both men. Mathers received no compensation for his efforts; but, Crowley retaliated by publishing some of the Golden Dawn in his magazine, The Equinox.
Then W. B. Yeats assume control of the Second Order. He did attempt to restore order to the society, but it was so splintered that Yeats' efforts were nearly fruitless. Yeats played a prominent part in the conflict between Crowley and Mathers. After the expulsion of both men Yeats took charge of the Ordo Rosae Rubeae et Aureae Crucis and also became the Imperator of the Isis-Urania Temple Outer Order."
This account matches neither those of the Golden Dawn, with which I have been affiliated since 2001, nor those of Crowley's own accounts in The Temple of Solomon the King & Confessions.
Quote:Yeats and the others saw easily through Crowley's guise of deceit.
lol ...have you ever even read the man's works?
hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib2.html
hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib150.html
hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib300.html
hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib161.html
P.D. Newman
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #8 on Jun 6, 2010, 8:38pm »
Jack Pasons had much more of an influence on the Golden dawn than did Crowley overall. But, an organization like the Open Source Order of the Golden Dawn are more expressly Thelemic, so they would be more influenced by Crowley than many of the others.
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #9 on Jun 6, 2010, 8:44pm »
Jun 6, 2010, 8:36pm, arsihsis wrote:
Crowley was not as influential with the G.D. as with O.T.O., yet his influence was felt.
From:
www.themystica.com/mystica/articl....olden_dawn.html
"In 1898 Aleister Crowley was initiated into the society and progressed rapidly through the degrees. The next year, 1899, he went to Paris and compelled Mathers to initiate him into the Second Order to which Mathers complied. The London lodge, under Farr, rejected this initiation. Crowley returned to England as Mathers' "Envoy Extraordinary," in 1900, attempting to control the quarters of the Second Order. Crowley wore a black mask, Highland dress, and gilt dagger. The staged attempt was in vain, for it was rebuffed.
Eventually both Crowley and Mathers were thrown out of the society as a result of the uneasy alliance between them which deteriorated. Crowley considered himself a superior magician compared to Mathers. Allegedly this led to magical warfare between the two men. Mathers sent an astral vampire to attack Crowley. Crowley then counterattacked with an army of demons led by Beelzebub. After this latter attack was launched against the quarters of the Second Order the London lodge expelled both men. Mathers received no compensation for his efforts; but, Crowley retaliated by publishing some of the Golden Dawn in his magazine, The Equinox.
Then W. B. Yeats assume control of the Second Order. He did attempt to restore order to the society, but it was so splintered that Yeats' efforts were nearly fruitless. Yeats played a prominent part in the conflict between Crowley and Mathers. After the expulsion of both men Yeats took charge of the Ordo Rosae Rubeae et Aureae Crucis and also became the Imperator of the Isis-Urania Temple Outer Order."
Jun 6, 2010, 8:36pm, arsihsis wrote:This account matches neither those of the Golden Dawn, with which I have been affiliated since 2001, nor those of Crowley's own accounts in The Temple of Solomon the King & Confessions.
Whether or not it matches other accounts, it is an account. Which accounts are we to believe if they do not match up?
Quote:Yeats and the others saw easily through Crowley's guise of deceit.
Jun 6, 2010, 8:36pm, arsihsis wrote:lol ...have you ever even read the man's works?
hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib2.html
hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib150.html
hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib300.html
hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib161.html
P.D. Newman
Yes, I have. I do not see how this refutes or bolsters up any claims. Deceit sometimes implies to self-deceit as well as deceit of others.
« Last Edit: Jun 6, 2010, 8:50pm by KNOs1s » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #10 on Jun 6, 2010, 9:01pm »
Here is some more information regarding the issue of Crowley's involvement with the G.D., from the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn website, partially confirming the information heretofore provided:
www.golden-dawn.com/eu/displaycon....side-study#1900
"1900 -index-
January 16 - Crowley goes to Paris and is initiated into the Second Order by Mathers. Upon his return to the London temple, he requested the grade papers to which he was now entitled from Miss Cracknell, the acting secretary. To the London Adepts, this was the last straw. The London Adepts refuse to acknowledge Crowley's initiation.
January - Florence Farr, already of the opinion that the London temple should be closed, wrote to Mathers expressing her wish to resign as his representative, though she was willing to carry on until a successor was found.
February 16 - Mathers replies to this on February 16th, accusing Farr or attempting to bring back Wescott as the head of the order. Consequently, Mathers reveals to Farr that the letters from Fraulein Sprengel had been forged by Westcott. This bombshell shakes the trust of the London members. The crisis is exasperated by Westcott's refusal to give any explanation or even defend himself against Mathers's accusations.
March 3 - The Adepts in London elect a committee of seven and request a full investigation of the matter.
March 23 - Mathers replies, declining to provide proof, refusing even to acknowledge the committee, and dismissing Farr as his representative.
March 29 - A general meeting is called in London. The committee of rogue Adepts remove Mathers as chief and expels him from the Order. It also expells Mina Mathers and Crowley.
April - Mathers annuls the Second Order committee and sends Crowley to London as his emissary in order to take possession of Second Order's private rooms and implements. This plan was foiled by the diligence of W.B. Yeats and certain other rogue Adepts.
In the ensuing confusion, Yeats takes control, becoming Imperator of Isis-Urania Temple. The committee attempts to restructure the Order along more democratic lines, resulting in even greater confusion. Annie Horniman is reinstated into the Order. Horniman, however, begins to argue with nearly everyone in the Order."
"1909
William Alexander Ayton passes.
Franz Bardon is born.
Aleister Crowley begins to publish Golden Dawn rituals and teachings in The Equinox, leading Mathers to eventually sue him for copyright infringement in a suit which Mathers loses."
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #11 on Jun 6, 2010, 9:05pm »
I more than most Masons have respect for Crowley. I acknowledge him for exactly what he was, the most influential occultist of the 20th century.
I also have tremendous appreciation for the Golden Dawn system of both practical and ceremonial magick. I believe it to be highly beneficial to all Masons who choose to ad it to their skill set.
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #12 on Jun 6, 2010, 9:41pm »
Unfortunately some comments have been removed from this thread. I ask all to please remain on track and cut out the personal stuff.
Thanks.
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #13 on Jun 6, 2010, 9:45pm »
I think many, many Masons have respect for Crowley, and I for many, many Masons who respect Crowley. I am of a mind to 'point out where the gilded lilly is tarnished' when it comes to these matters. I appreciate the G.D. and some of its studies, though I am always careful to avoid putting too much stock in things that may or may not return on the investment.
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #14 on Jun 6, 2010, 9:53pm »
Return on investment is subjective. Just how not all money market funds will offer the same return to each investor, neither will every system suit every magician.
I love the GD system, it has proved very useful in my everyday life. Of course I combine it with the Qliphotic Kabbalah. I have found this combination to be extremely potent.
YMMV.
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KNOs1s
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #15 on Jun 6, 2010, 9:54pm »
If it feels good and isn't hurting anyone, I say go for it. I like the G.D. and have an enormous respect for Yeats. Esp. when he kicked Crowley down the stairs after Crowley threatened the G.D. members with a knife (according to the records).
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #16 on Jun 6, 2010, 10:01pm »
Many an accomplished magician has come from the Golden Dawn roster. From Mathers (a real rockstar) Wolcott, Waite, Fortune, Parsons, Haack, Griffen, Runyon, Zelewski and Reagardie to name a few.
The system is excellent especially when used as a foundational principle. It's hard to be an adapt in the Golden Dawn. It requires blood and sweat commitment, that is what I respect most about it.
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Re: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like Masonry
« Reply #17 on Jun 7, 2010, 5:57am »
This topic is locked.
I have had to remove several posts because they were totally incompatible with anything resembling Masonry.
PMs will be sent in the hope this nonsense will cease, if it does not, then regrettably other actions will need to be considered.
