My current favourite historical topic and one that I feel is still very, very relevant to the modern machinations in the world.

"Atlantis" in the sense I mean it refers to the "Island / Continent" and the "City" as described by Plato in the Criaeus and Timaeus.

When I started reading up on the subject I wasn't prepared for the incredible wealth of information that supports the fact that not is civilization in the Americas many, many thousands of years older than we have been led to believe by the mainstream, but that the coverups by mainstream historians, archaeologists and others are so incredibly blatant that they are truly worthy successors of the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages.

There are many aspects to cover, and uncover, but basically the Spanish were only the latest in a long line of visitors which included Vikings, Celts, Romans, Phoenicians, Africans, Chinese, Polynesians and others going back perhaps tens of thousands of years; before the great deluge that possibly destroyed the city of Atlantis and devestated the continent. All of these visitors were navigators and seafarers. They didn't come across the Bering Strait. History has been rewritten by landlubbers with an agenda. The history of the great seafaring nations across the globe is a great spin off from Atlantis research.

We'll discuss the orgin of bananas and coconuts, compare pyramids and hieroglyphics. We'll listen to what the American peoples themselves had to say as well as some quotes from Spanish newcomers before the Catholic Church tried it's damndest to erase every trace of pre-Columbian civilization. But the jungle had already swallowed up civilizations much older than the aztecs, maya and incas, so the truth has emerged in stone and continues to be brought to the light of day for those with eyes to see.

As with many subjects, there has been a lot of material written regarding Atlantis that is either personal fantasy or deliberately intended to twist the truth, but it seems that there were underlying truths of such a scale that organizations have been working for millenia to suppress them; and apparently some others have been working to keep them alive.

As so often it seems so much easier to spot the bad guys, and the good guys are generally elusive, probably for their own safety, and we have to be careful not to fall into the traps of believing some of the propaganda.

I hope I can share some of the fascinating stuff I've learned and present in bite sized pieces. There is soooooooo much to cover, and I flippin' love it.

Wasn't atlantis meant to be about 300 miles long and 200 miles wide and surrounded by mountains according to Plato?

Thats not to say by the way that the americas weren't visited by seafaring humans before traditional records state etc.

I don't know that much about the atlantis theories other then the ones that have been explored on various crappy tv programmes - would be fascinated to read more - nice topic

andyh wrote:
Hi Andy,

That's the city of Atlantis, which Plato said was situated in the centre (not the middle) of an "island" read continent. ** There are more details, I can't remember them right now: I'll double check in the book and add the relevant details in a later post.

Here is a book which describes the Atlantis layout you describe high up on the altiplano of Bolivia, which is a rectangular plain with an ancient canal network, two great lakes, including lake Popooh. The author is an ex RAF navigator, who used satellite photos and visited the sites to show the network of canals, rectangular plain, concentric circles which he theorizes might have been the city of Atlantis. Not the Continent which Plato said was larger than Libya and Asia (Africa and Asia as known to the Greeks).

www.amazon.co.uk/Atlantis-Solution-Disco...id=1342469478&sr=8-3

This is just one book of many, but I read it recently and it provides lots of food for thought.

thoreau wrote:
Cheers. As I wrote in my first post, there are many, many aspects to the Atlantis topic which go way beyond some of the more famous and outlandish theories, not that I completely rule out anything until I feel really certain, but there are so many literally stone hard facts and interesting clues that it isn't necessary to rely on fiction to back up the claims.

As I also mentioned, there seems to have also been an awful lot of deliberate misinformation for millenia on this subject.

For example, the phoenicians did their best to deter anyone else from muscling in on the lucrative trans atlantic trade in copper from Lake Superior and tin from what is now Bolivia. These were the ingredients required for making the bronze required ofr the bronze age. The Phonenicians used force to sop the Etruscans and a combination of force and story telling to deter the Greeks who were firstly forbidden by the Phoenicians from going beyond the pillars of Hercules and then made to believe that the Atlantic could not be sailed. The Romans finally destroyed Carthage which was the last Phoenician stronghold and seafaring in the mediterraneane declined, but I read that the remains of 1st Century BC Roman vessels were found off the coast of Rio de Janeiro and Venezuela. I need to double check on that somehow. More details to come.

And yes, apparently the Egyptian pharaohs really did have traces of cocaine and nicotine in many of their mummies.

This is great - I'm looking forward to hearing about this research.

Ty , anthony65, i am putting this thread in my faves, so i dont miss anything.

Excellent thread, you are the best man here! (( a nice joke from the tv show "IT Crowd" ))

Really good stuff

Thanks Anthony65, I look forward to your posts on this. I wanna know more about this stuff, cos basically I know zero about it.

Thanks everyone! Kind and inspirational words indeed!

I intend to provide the information in bite sized pieces because there is so much and it covers so many areas, but before I get into the details, I wanted to mention a little more of the important things to keep in mind.

Remember that the geography of how we know the world today is very different from the way the world looked around 12,000 years ago. Sea levels rose about 400 feet after the end of the last ice age, which means that the sea based cultures of that time would have lost their coastal cities. This of course is perfectly highlighted by the recent news about the "crystal pyramid" discovered off the coast of the Bahamas. This is potentially a phenomenal find, and could indicate highly civilized cultures dating back many, many millenia prior to the end of the last ice age.

beforeitsnews.com/story/2301/051/Giant_C...ermuda_Triangle.html

Remember that Sumeria civilization supposedly appeared from nowhere, but was perhaps introduced from Atlantis/the Americas. The Sumerians said that their ancester came from the sea. The name Oannes is worth keeping in mind!

The Egyptians best and biggest pyramids were the first ones built and very, very interestingly, the Book of the Dead apparently states that Thoth came from the west. I can't remember the details from the book I just read, but I'll get them. Basically there is a big lake in Nicaragua which could be reached by a river on the western side and then required just 12 miles portage to reach the Pacific. In this lake , which has the only fresh water sharks in the world, there a couple of volcanoes and islands with hundreds of big statues, which represented different racial types. For example, very definite bearded types (in the semitic / Phoenicia style). Central America also has Olmec statues that are very, very obviously negro faces. There are also Asiatic/Chinese influences and all of these are just a few more pieces of the mosaic that proves 100 per cent in my opinon that the Americas were visited over millenia by peoples from east and west.

When the Spanish reached Peru they were told that if they sailed in a particular direction they would reach some islands. The Spanish ignored this, but a couple of hundred years later the Easter Islands were discovered in the Pacific. In addition to the famous statues of the heads (the bodies are underground) the miniscule islands also had a hieroglyphic script called Rongo Rongo which was later found to be almost identical to the Harrappan script of an early Indus valley civilization.

The Pacific islanders were fantastic navigators and populated hundreds or thousands of islands using great navigational skill until the colonial powers forbade them to sail between islands and the knowledge of how sail by the stars, which had been passed down for countless generations, faded but was not entirely lost.

On another geographical note, remember that the Andes mountains have been growing over time. I think I read that they had grown 600 feet in the past 1000 years alone. There are remains of shellfish high up in the mountains!

There are also very powerful linguistic clues. Andes should read Antis! The Incas had 4 provinces, one of which was called antisuyo. The first Atlantean King according to Greek myth was Atlas. "Atl" means water in Aztec. Central America has also been home to various cities called Tula (Thule of Nordic mythology?).

Plato descibed Atlantis as being unbelievably rich in precious metals.The Spanish discoved this to be the case, and when they captured the Incan Emperor, he offered to fill a room with gold as high as his hand could reach. The Incans thought this was a cheap price to pay as they covered their walls with gold, made rain gutters and everyday implements from it. Their only concerns were for the religious objects. The Spanish murdered the Emperor anyway, after allowing him to convert to Christianity with the promise that he would be strangled with a rope and not burned as a heretic. They did keep this promise I suppose. Much, much more gold was on the way and this was hidden by the Incas with most of it still waiting somewhere to be discovered.

I'm wondering if Atlantis is just a story created as a way of predictive programming us so that we are not surprised when some great cities around the world are sunk (using HAARP) - We would just say "oh this is just the same as Atlantis".

Or maybe Atlantis was sunk by using HAARP and history is repeating itself.

Ok Just some daft thoughts there

We need Anthony back to finish these threads really

The very fact that the Sume­ri­ans and their architecture, artifacts and records etc. are totally ignored and all attention is centered on Egypt is telling. They have effectively been removed from the main stream historical record for a reason as with most disinformation campaigns it's omissions such as this which are the critical pieces of the puzzle, that they don't want to be common knowledge. A thread on the Sumerians would probably be worth starting.

Frog that vdeo you posted isnt working.

Steevo wrote:
Sorry about that I found a full length version on youtube instead so it's fixed now.

Thanks Frog, will watch it tomorrow, it's getting a bit late now.

Cheers!

indiancountrynews.net/index.php?option=c...w&id=1619&Itemid=116
Archaeology/Remains - Sites Uncovered/Locations
By Kevin Lollar
Immokalee, Florida (AP) 10-07

From a distance, the brown object near the bank of Lake Trafford looks like a log, or maybe a big alligator.

Close up, though, it becomes identifiable as a large section of a dugout canoe, possibly more than 1,000 years old.

As lake levels have dropped during the ongoing drought, normally submerged areas have become dry. Ten canoes, long buried in the sand, have been exposed.



“They started showing up a couple of months ago, but I wanted to verify what they were,” said Ski Olesky, owner of the Lake Trafford Marina. “That’s why I didn’t say anything. Now, the water is coming back up, and pretty soon, you won’t be able to see them.”

Archaeologist George Provenzali of Janus Research in Tampa was called in to measure the canoes and take samples for radiocarbon dating to decipher their age and to determine what kind of trees they’re from.

The largest canoe fragment was almost 14 feet long; some seem to be cypress, others pine. Radiocarbon dating should be complete within two months, Provenzali said.

“The dates will probably vary, and until we get the data back, we can’t say much,” Provenzali said. “But the dugouts are very old. Those things are amazing: You take a sample, and it looks like the trees were cut yesterday.”

Dead plant material generally breaks down quickly, but the canoes had been buried in anaerobic sediment without oxygen where organisms that cause decomposition can’t live.

Dredging activity at the lake and natural wave action have uncovered the canoes.

In the spring and summer of 2000, a drought in north-central Florida lowered water levels in Newnan’s Lake east of Gainesville, and archaeologists discovered 87 500- to 5,000-year-old canoes. Florida’s oldest canoes, discovered at DeLeon Springs in Volusia County, are 6,000 years old.

“Canoes of any sort are very rare in South Florida,” said Bill Marquardt, curator in archaeology at the Florida Museum of Natural History in Gainesville. “Many more are known in the lakes in North Florida. Anytime a water-logged canoe is found in South Florida, it’s something we can learn from.”

At the time of contact with Europeans in the early 16th century, all of South Florida was dominated by the Calusa Indians, a fishing culture whose population centers were along the coast at such places as Pineland on Pine Island and Mound Key in Estero Bay.

Researchers don’t know whom the Trafford canoes belonged to.

“Historically, South Florida was under the control of the Calusa,” Marquardt said. “So it may have been other groups subservient to the Calusa. We don’t know the tribal names. It might have been the Muspa (from the Marco area) or related Indians from around Lake Okeechobee.”

There are no plans to remove the canoes from the lake, Provenzali said.

“If we retrieve them, in a year or two, they’ll disintegrate,” he said. “We’re hoping the rain comes and covers them, and they can be preserved for hundreds or thousands of years.”

These aren’t the first ancient canoes found at Lake Trafford, said marina mechanic and guide Bubba Blaylock: During a dry spell a few years ago, some canoes were exposed, but then rains raised the lake level and water covered them.

“Over the years, I’ve heard stories about people’s grandfathers who’d say, Hey, there are canoes in Lake Trafford,”’ Blaylock said. “Others would say, No way, I’ve seen the lake low, and there aren’t any canoes.’

“But I tell you: I wouldn’t cross this lake in a canoe like this, not with all the alligators out there. Maybe the Indians had more influence with their young men, but I would have had to say, No.”’

I think it could have been in the middle of the Atlantic.

andyh wrote:
Before I forget to reply to this.

It's actually very interesting that you should quote the distances in miles Andy, because the unit of measurement given by Plato was "Stades", which is equivalent to 600 feet. Remember that Plato was writing for a Greek audience and quoting an oral tradition that had been given to Greek traders by Egyptian priests. Therefore he wrote of triremes for example. The ancient Greeks made no secret of the fact that Egyptian civilization was older and wiser than theirs. In one of Plato's accounts of Atlantis, the Egyptian priest says that the Greeks were like children and had no understanding of truly ancient history.

"You speak of one catastrophe (deluge) when there have been many". Or something along those lines. And this was clearly the case as the world moved in and out of ice ages, volanic eruptions, possibly comet impacts or near misses and other literally world changing events.

Plato also says that the events related were 9000 years old at the time of writing, although one writer "Atlantis in the Andes" proposes that there might also be a case for undertanding this to be lunar months. Or perhaps both. We can hardly expect Plato's account of events 9000 years previous or even 1800 to be 100% accurate. Look at the news reports of events happening today or in the recent past. But within the framework of Plato's accounts are some real nuggets of information that make it very likely that he really was describing an atlantis in the west. And Plato's account is just one of many, many supporting arguments that not only prove that the history of "Atlantis/ the Americas" is far more ancient than we are generally taught, but also cast in doubt not just the timeline of history, but even more critically at this point in time, the biblical accounts of the Old Testament. We know that many of the early Genesis accounts are to be found in other cultures, so perhaps we need to look at the bible as well from the point of view of a very ancient global civilization.

"Atlantis" is fascinating, and still very relevant, but the trail probably leads even deeper, to the Pacific, for example and the lost civilizations of the east.

And perhaps even off world. Mars, for example, the red planet, old scarface, which is in the news as we speak.

But although I might allude to these topics, I won't cover them in depth here.

I'm currently reading about the Basques, their language, the megaliths, dolmens and "cyclopean" walls that are to be found in coastal regions of western europe, but also in the Atlas mountains (Berbers), as well as Egypt and other places around the world. Easter island for example. Somehow I have to structure all the subjects I want to cover. I'm still only outlining the possible areas of interest and connections.

Thanks for the video link Frog! David Hatcher Childress is so cool and such an inspiration.

Check out his book!

Merchants of Magic Evolution of the Atlantean Meme

A friend of mine is a Freemason, Rosicrucian and Martinist. One night he was very drunk and was on the marching powder. He told me that Atlantis was part of the Azores and a few other interesting bits and bobs.