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TOPIC: Thoughts on History

Thoughts on History 28 Sep 2012 15:45 #1

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Hi there peeps, quite interested in hearing your thoughts about history?

What is it's significance in your opinion?

Do you have any favourite historical narratives or authors?

I'm an afrocentrist.

Afrocentrism:
In 2000, Molefi Kete Asante, chair of the Department of African American Studies at Temple University gave a lecture at the University of Liverpool entitled "Afrocentricity: Toward a New Understanding of African Thought in this Millennium,"[20] in which he presented many of his ideas:

Africa has been betrayed by international commerce, by missionaries and imams, by the structure of knowledge imposed by the Western world, by its own leaders, and by the ignorance of its own people of its past.
Philosophy originated in Africa and the first philosophers in the world were Africans.
Afrocentricity constitutes a new way of examining data, and a novel orientation to data; it carries with it assumptions about the current state of the African world.
His aim is "to help lay out a plan for the recovery of African place, respectability, accountability, and leadership."
Afrocentricity can stand its ground among any ideology or religion:Marxism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, or Judaism. Your Afrocentricity will emerge in the presence of these other ideologies because it is from you.
Afrocentrism is the only ideology that can liberate African people.

Asante also stated:
“ As a cultural configuration, the Afrocentric idea is distinguished by five characteristics:

an intense interest in psychological location as determined by symbols, motifs, rituals, and signs.
a commitment to finding the subject-place of Africans in any social, political, economic, or religious phenomenon with implications for questions of sex, gender, and class.
a defence of African cultural elements as historically valid in the context of art, music, and literature.
a celebration of centeredness and agency and a commitment to lexical refinement that eliminates pejoratives about Africans or other people.
a powerful imperative from historical sources to revise the collective text of African people.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: Thoughts on History 28 Sep 2012 16:34 #2

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Actually reading through that summation of Afrocentrist thought again reminded me about the work of the likes of Z Sitchen, Jordan Maxwell and David Icke that cover up the African roots of civilization and world mythological archetypes attributing African philosophy, and practical geometry etc to off world Aliens. :rolleyes:
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: Thoughts on History 28 Sep 2012 17:39 #3

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You increase my IQ points every time I read a thread by you, I will think about this cause my reading has been lacking.

And thank you for being on this forum, you are a very intelligent person
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Re: Thoughts on History 28 Sep 2012 17:51 #4

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I also enjoy your post and would be curious to learn more about this topic.
"I am a Real American, fight for the rights of everyman" (Hulk Hogan theme song)
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Re: Thoughts on History 28 Sep 2012 21:23 #5

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Afro­cen­trism is the only ide­ol­ogy that can lib­er­ate African peo­ple.

Any ideology that suggests you are defined by your place of birth and not your achievements is not an ideology of liberation.
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Re: Thoughts on History 28 Sep 2012 21:37 #6

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Well history is very important I suppose.
Everything that has happened in the past has led to the events of today and it is indeed important to learn from past mistakes.
Unfortunately we're still making many of those past mistakes today :)
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: Thoughts on History 28 Sep 2012 22:32 #7

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I agree with oioioi, it's not about where a person is born that defines them.
and the only way to free Africa is to remove the (mostly Rothschild owned) international corporations that fund the endless civil wars, bloodthirsty dictators and weapons shipments that keep that contitnent in a constant state of turmoil whilst all the resources are stripped out.
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Re: Thoughts on History 29 Sep 2012 15:31 #8

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oioioi wrote:
Afro­cen­trism is the only ide­ol­ogy that can lib­er­ate African peo­ple.

Any ideology that suggests you are defined by your place of birth and not your achievements is not an ideology of liberation.
If I may, it seems you are quite ignorant as to what Afrocentrism actually is?
Afrocentrism is not some petty nationalistic ideology, it is the process of claiming back African achievements, Medicine, Alchemy, Geometry, Spirituality/Religion, Maths, Trigonometry, etc etc from the White Supremacist Empires which stole these achievements and used them as a basis for attempting to subjugate the entire planet.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: Thoughts on History 29 Sep 2012 15:38 #9

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I adore learning about the origins and evolution of all things - history not only helps me understand how we came to be where we are but also why.

Looking forward is important but it should always be with one eye on the past so as not to make the same mistakes.
Sometimes, if you stand on the bottom rail of a bridge and lean over to watch the river slipping slowly away beneath you, you will suddenly know everything there is to be known.

“Just living is not enough, one must have sunshine, freedom, and a little flower”
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Re: Thoughts on History 29 Sep 2012 15:38 #10

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martg wrote:
I agree with oioioi, it's not about where a person is born that defines them.
and the only way to free Africa is to remove the (mostly Rothschild owned) international corporations that fund the endless civil wars, bloodthirsty dictators and weapons shipments that keep that contitnent in a constant state of turmoil whilst all the resources are stripped out.

Afrocentrism is not about where a person is born, it is a world view that asserts our concept of progress, intelligence, evolution, morality is fundamentally skewed and white supremacist, and that these ideas were originally conceived of and explored in pre-colonial, pre-slavery Africa by African men and women despite there being very little in terms of written records.

Would you suggest an organization of Westerners impose that policy of reform on Africa from outside?

I think Afrocentrism is a powerful tool in the Liberation and Unification of Africa, in terms of combating western imposed governmental structures and ideologies, Christianity and Islamic attacks on African History and Mythology and in providing a narrative for discerning the historical basis of much that goes on in today's world.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
Last Edit: 29 Sep 2012 15:40 by Guevarista.
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Re: Thoughts on History 29 Sep 2012 17:05 #11

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Prodigy posted this, I have not watched it all yet.

"I am a Real American, fight for the rights of everyman" (Hulk Hogan theme song)
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Re: Thoughts on History 30 Sep 2012 03:15 #12

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I love the Olmec stuff, so interesting, I dunno about the guys linguistic/etymological work but thanks for the video anyway!

Some great stuff in this article:
www.asante.net/articles/26/afrocentricity/
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: Thoughts on History 30 Sep 2012 07:56 #13

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Guevarista wrote:
martg wrote:
I agree with oioioi, it's not about where a person is born that defines them.
and the only way to free Africa is to remove the (mostly Rothschild owned) international corporations that fund the endless civil wars, bloodthirsty dictators and weapons shipments that keep that contitnent in a constant state of turmoil whilst all the resources are stripped out.

Afrocentrism is not about where a person is born, it is a world view that asserts our concept of progress, intelligence, evolution, morality is fundamentally skewed and white supremacist, and that these ideas were originally conceived of and explored in pre-colonial, pre-slavery Africa by African men and women despite there being very little in terms of written records.

Would you suggest an organization of Westerners impose that policy of reform on Africa from outside?

I think Afrocentrism is a powerful tool in the Liberation and Unification of Africa, in terms of combating western imposed governmental structures and ideologies, Christianity and Islamic attacks on African History and Mythology and in providing a narrative for discerning the historical basis of much that goes on in today's world.

When you say "our concept of progress, intelligence, evolution, morality is fundamentally skewed and white supremacist" depends what you mean by "our"
certainly the view that Africans are lower in all those standards is pushed by the media and the rich white billionaire types
I don't buy into that bullshit though, most African countries have been ruthlessly kept in a state of unnatural poverty and violence by these mining and weapons companies that have a vested interest in making sure that Africans never have a hope of getting out of poverty and oppression.

Dismantling the companies that are destroying Africa would not be imposing a policy of reform, just levelling the playing field so that Africans can take back possession of their own resources.
These companies are all based in Europe and the US anyway.
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Re: Thoughts on History 30 Sep 2012 15:21 #14

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I do agree good post MartG :)

Have you seen any of the info about the WWF and 1001 club's ownership of African lands?
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: Thoughts on History 30 Sep 2012 19:48 #15

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Rick wrote:
You increase my IQ points every time I read a thread by you, I will think about this cause my reading has been lacking.

And thank you for being on this forum, you are a very intelligent person
There's a lot of really weird stuff out there, but persevere, I like Moustaffa Ghadalla, the best book you can get on the subject of Pan African civilization prior to Khemet is in Godfrey Higgins's Anacalypsis, I can't recommend researching that book enough, it has incredible depth and scope of a largely suppressed history only available to Higgins through secret societies and his life involved in sacred traditions.
Hip Hop was a big guiding light for me, it always served as a tool for understanding people who become empowered by their pursuit of knowledge and what paths they followed, likes of the likes of RZA, Killah Priest, Lost Children of Babylon, Secta7 (again can't recommend them enough), Jedi Mind Tricks etc etc, I'll try dig out some of the old Afrocentric videos I used to watch quite a bit of, there was a lot of Khaleed Muhammed, I loved his flow and energy, Malachi Z York was good on the Scriptures of Islam and Hebrew but had some kooky shit, Phil Valentine was over the top but interesting and captivating all the same.

May that serve as some sort of a bibliography, there'd be lot's to add but I'm hiiiigh :agri:
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: Thoughts on History 30 Sep 2012 19:59 #16

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This is great on many levels:


Comprehend the intro, language has existed in many other forms, in many cases far richer, ie Alpha Numerics, Hebrew Syretic languages, Oriental languages, and of course ancient hieroglyphs with far deeper symbolic and universal relevance than our current mental state can really completely comprehend.

Think Babel ;)
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
Last Edit: 30 Sep 2012 20:00 by Guevarista.
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Re: Thoughts on History 06 Oct 2012 16:25 #17

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“What myth are you living?”

The famed psychologist Carl Jung asked this question to remind people that the patterns of their daily lives are more deeply rooted in the “collective unconscious” than they may realize. As Clyde W. Ford points out in his book The Hero with an African Face (Bantam), African-Americans face a special challenge in recognizing the myths they are living. If they turn only to Western traditions to find out what it means to be black, for instance, they find a predominance of legends that tell of white gods triumphing over black devils.

“So much of the history of the West is embodied in this simple but devastating mythology that pits people with white skins against those with dark skins,” says Ford “— a cultural mythology that plagues us to this very day.” But the African traditions behind the word black tell stories not of monochromatic devils but of many kinds of people: the people of the mountains of the west, the people of the dream time, the people of the seeded earth, the people of immeasurable radiance. Ford answers Jung’s question by saying that he is now living the “reclaimed mythology of black” — and his book offers that profound reclamation for the benefit of all readers.

Besides being a scholar who has taught Swahili at Columbia University and African American history at Western Washington University, Dr. Ford is a chiropractor and leader in somatic psychology who has previously written books on physical and emotional healing and racial harmony. A past editor of Marilyn Ferguson’s Brain Mind Bulletin, Ford is the founding director of the Institute of African Mythology. He has traveled widely in Africa where he pursued some of the original research for The Hero With an African Face. His work is pathbreaking in part because, as Ford discovered to his surprise and dismay, the leading Western mythologist of modern times chose to overlook the rich traditions of the African continent.

Your book is both an homage and a challenge to the legacy of the scholar and mythologist Joseph Campbell, who once dismissed African mythology as “mumbo-jumbo from the Congo” and otherwise hardly mentioned it in his volumes of research and commentary. Could you say a little about your mixed feelings in following Campbell’s footsteps into new scholarly territory?
FORD: In writing the book I woke up on alternate days blessing or cursing Joseph Campbell. On the days that I cursed him, it was because I could hardly believe a man with his scholarship and intellect had ignored and ridiculed the tremendous contribution of African mythology and sacred wisdom. On the days that I blessed him, it was for the model of mythic understanding that he presented to us. And also because if he had included Africa in his studies, I wouldn't have had this niche to explore! For me personally, the opportunity to explore this terrain — as opposed to reading someone else’s exploration — was a very powerful undertaking that I wouldn’t give up for anything in the world.

Is it possible that Campbell’s incomplete perspective had to do with African mythology having less of a written record than an oral tradition?
FORD: Some scholars have suggested that, but it’s not really true. In the 1890s, Swedish researcher Karl Laman went into the Congo and taught the natives there the art of ethnography and scholarly research, then sent them out to document their myths and sacred wisdom. This resulted in a treasure trove of written material on African traditions that was certainly within Campbell’s grasp if he wanted to find it.

Your book points out that African mythology covers all the same themes of the better known Greco-Roman tradition: death and resurrection, the hero’s journey, legends of creation, and so on. Are there any new themes, or different ways of presenting them, offered by African traditions?
FORD: There is a different take on the tradition of the hero. In Western culture the hero is seen as someone who is exceptional; he or she does amazing things that leave you saying, “Wow, I can't believe anyone could do that.” In African culture, there is more of an expectation that certain people will lead exceptional lives for the purpose of reinvigorating society. In that sense, the hero is more expected and accepted as part of everyday life, and not seen as so rare and different from the rest of us. There’s a saying in West Africa: “The hero is welcomed when the times are most troubled.” So when society is troubled, somebody is supposed to emerge and lead society through its trials and tribulations. The hero doesn’t do things just to amaze us, but for the purpose of bringing society back into balance.

Although the figure of the shaman is universal across all cultures, your book seems to suggest that the shaman perhaps occupies a more central place of honor in African traditions.
FORD: It’s not that the shaman as an individual is more important, but that in many African cultures shamanic work is participated in by almost everyone, instead of being reserved for special individuals. In the Southern African traditions especially, shamanic journeying is something that everyone does, not just one person. So there’s a democratization of shamanic powers that characterizes the African tradition, although I’d hesitate to say that Africa is the only place one would find that.

So the difference is that a shaman is seen less as a healer with special powers than as someone who leads everyone into greater powers.
FORD: You can’t label Africa as one uniform culture, because it’s a huge continent of many cultures. But in some African traditions, the shamanic experience is so democratized that there isn’t even a recognition of a single individual as a leader. The experience itself is captured by the entire group. This distinguishes the African tradition from those of both the West and East. The typical Oriental view of the spiritual journey is of the group led by the teacher; as a journeyer one is sublimating individual aspirations and goals for the sake of the group. In the West, it’s the individual's spiritual quest that is generally elevated above the group.

In Africa I think there’s a more balanced relationship between the two sides of spiritual experience. There’s an African saying: I am because we are. We are because I am. In other words the individual implicates the group, and the group implicates the individual.

I was fascinated by the African creation myth that shows a god who makes mistakes — fashioning human beings from clay while drunk on palm wine, for instance, and making deformities and flaws which the creator then regrets.
FORD: That’s the story of the god Obatala who is drunk at the point of creating human beings and inadvertently creates the infirm, the crippled, and so on. This idea is a reflection that in Africa, the separation between humanity and divinity has a different meaning than in the West. For instance, it’s not just humanity that must reach up for divinity, as in the West.

In the African tradition, the gods must come down to earth to find their humanity. That’s a metaphorical message that each of us has within us our own divinity. We need not reach for it out there, but we do need to recognize it within. In these myths where the gods make mistakes, we see divinity reflecting its humanity, and humanity reflecting its divinity. That is similar to the Eastern yin-yang symbolism of light and dark reflecting each other.

It’s the difference between worshipping a god from whom all compassion flows, and understanding that you must find compassion within yourself before you can know what’s divine. And yet, just feeling compassion doesn't make us gods.
FORD: No, but it does mean that we've found one aspect of our own divinity. When we feel or act upon compassion, then we can say we’re allowing the god of compassion to manifest in our lives. Of course we’re not referring here to a god as an individual being, but as a transcendental aspect of our own experience.

What is the relationship of the African spiritual entities known as “orishas” to the Western saints?
FORD: As slaves were taken from Africa and removed from their native cultural milieu, they were injected into a brutal system that attempted to strip from them any anchor to their past. For instance, their native spirituality was replaced with Christianity. What happened then says something marvelous about the capacity of human beings to find familiar aspects of divinity even in spiritual systems that are alien to them. When African slaves were taught Christianity, they recognized qualities in the traditional saints that were associated with the gods and goddesses (orishas) of their original cultures. So instead of Obatala, an orisha with a prominent aspect of compassion, the slaves would turn to Our Lady of Mercy.

It was as if the slaves were saying to their masters, “You don't want us to worship our gods, but you don't know what goes on inside us when we worship your saints.” There’s a spiritual statement there, and a political one too — a statement of resistance, of a revolutionary impulse within the person never to surrender their native spiritual sustenance.

The difference in worship is that for Westerners, saints are generally revered as iconic figures entirely outside the person. In the African mind, the saints would actually visit the worshipper in the same way as the orishas would have done. Visiting the person moves him or her to dance, to “speak in tongues,” or otherwise personify the divinity.

I was curious about how African legends have been translated in the West — for instance in the “Uncle Remus” tales that have been perceived by some observers as denigrating to African-Americans, while others see them as metaphorical stories of subversion and revolution.
FORD: That’s the book I intend to write after the current one: the story of what went on with African myth on this side of the Atlantic, during and after the slave trade. Any myth can be read at different levels, depending on your depth of understanding and awareness. In African myth as in the musical form of spirituals, there were always double messages. Many of the stories told in American slave culture were a primitive form of stealth technology. If you fully understood what was going on in them, you knew that a lot of valuable and subversive information was being broadcast in metaphor.

What difference would it make to African-Americans, and to the West in general, if there were a broader understanding of the heritage of African mythology?
FORD: The most important thing about myths is not that they’re just interesting stories that are fun to read. Myths talk about heroes outside ourselves in order to bring our attention to the heroes within ourselves. That’s really the point of my book. I studied these myths in part to discover the heroic aspect within myself, and I wrote the book so that others might find that heroic part within themselves. When I say “heroic” I'm not talking about rescuing somebody in trouble. I'm talking about discovering that part of ourselves which is capable of creatively engaging in life, of overcoming obstacles, of pursuing our passions and bringing our unique gifts into the world. And then the hero inspires others to do the same.

As an African-American, having a mythic tradition which reflects our historical experience allows us to become more creative in overcoming the typical obstacles we face. There is an element of healing in this process too. African-Americans have to grapple with the question: How do we deal with the awesome trauma of our past? You can’t go back and change it; rather you have to find a way to reconcile yourself with it. For me, myth is a way of coming to term with the African-American trauma that allows us to move forward powerfully, without feeling that we’re still victims of the past.

Mythic wisdom has to change with the times as well. We can’t expect that the way wisdom was transmitted even fifty years ago is going to work today. The challenge is to bring mythic wisdom to bear on the here-and-now in a way that makes sense in the current culture. A good example is the Rites of Passage Institute, an educational group that’s attempting to find ways to bring rituals reflecting modern-day life to young people, particularly young people in the inner city.

To his credit, Joseph Campbell repeatedly emphasized the relevance of myth to our modern lives, and tried to dispense with our modern habit of equating myths with untruths.
FORD: Myths are vehicles for transmitting eternal wisdom. The variables that they deal with are the variables of our unconscious. When you deal with the unconscious, there is no such thing as objective knowledge. But there are regularities within unconscious experience that transcend culture, and myth is very good at capturing those regularities, those patterns of universal experience. And by connecting us to a deeper source, myths help us come to terms with our everyday lives in a more fruitful way.
www.fearlessbooks.com/fsCFord.html
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
Last Edit: 06 Oct 2012 16:32 by Guevarista.
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Re: Thoughts on History 06 Oct 2012 16:31 #18

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A bit more on Anacalypsis:
www.raceandhistory.com/selfnews/viewnews...1952209,16732,.shtml
By Ayanna www.rootswomen.com

Why were there so many African-descended people the Indian subcontinent by the early 17th century and in what way did Malik Ambar reflect their significance to the region?

In Godfrey Higgins' seminal work Anaclypsis, he relates a story of Herodotus giving an account of his travels to the lands of the Blacks: "And upon his return to Greece they gathered around and asked, "Tell us about this great Land of the blacks called Ethiopia." And Herodotus said, "There are two great Ethiopian nations, one in Sind (India) and the other in Egypt". Herodotus' account of the great African civilizations that spanned both the African continent and much of South East Asia, was not the first nor would it be the last observation by travelers and historians alike, of the black civilizations in South East Asia. Arriving in several waves during the 16th century, many European adventurers wrote and marveled at the civilizations they had encountered. However, in light of European ethnocentrism, it would be the presence of a large number of Africans in the region that may have proved most startling. Europeans would later attempt to catalog and trace the origins of these Africans. In the aforementioned work, Higgins not only attempts to trace the paths of incursion of these Africans into Asia but additionally he classifies them into several groups based on variations in phenotype.

The rise of Pan-Africanism in the 20th century along with the increasing scope of revisionist scholars of African history and the history of African descended peoples, has given impetus to critical examinations of their achievements and contributions to civilizations the world over. The reign of the Ethiopian ruler Malik Ambar in the Deccan stands out as a dramatic assertion of African leadership in a hostile anti-black environment replete with incursions by hostile invading forces. However, we must note that Ambar's rule, though significant was not an exception, but part of a long history of African power in the region from as early as over 100,000 years ago. It is these achievements by Africans and African descended peoples in India that have been long overlooked in European and Indo- European scholarship and have more recently been catapulted into the public eye by rising Pan-African and civil rights movements.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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What is going on when it comes to 9-11 I…

The EPA (environmental protection agency) and OSHA took air samples in the days following September 11th, they reported that they found no excessive levels of asbestos contrary to other findings....

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9-11 Eleven Years Later

9-11 Eleven Years Later

With the anniversary of September 11th literally just around the corner, unanswered questions still remain for families who lost loved ones during the tragic event, as well as from families...

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Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass An…

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass Animal Deaths

In 2008 the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to review a series of lower court rulings that restrict the United States Navy's use of sonar in submarine detection training exercises off...

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Annual Server Target

Whether its 50 cents or five dollars, your donations are appreciated and help keep this community site running so we can all continue to enjoy using it.
This target is to meet our server cost for one year, June 2020 - May 2021, in USD.
$ 340 - Target
( £ 250 GBP )
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$ 192 - Raised
( £ 140 GBP )
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56%
Most Recent Donation:
$122 USD on 4th Jan 2021
Bitcoin Address: bc1q0kazqya0nurfxtunxv807vm0m8852nnrrk8mj8
 
Ethereum Address: 0xe69915c80dd75df19f438d556267e04f932f057d
 
More Info: Donation options for TZ

No one is obliged to donate, please only donate what you can afford. Even the smallest amount helps. Being an active member is a positive contribution. Thank You.

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