I made this post a few days ago:

sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/General/64851-Fo...it=20&start=20#65273

I'm not sure that things have improved since then, so I'm going to put this up in an attempt to draw a line in the sand:

(i) I pledge to make a finan­cial con­tri­bu­tion of at least £1 per annum to the run­ning of the site.
(ii) I pledge to make every effort to be polite to oth­ers at all times, and respect other people’s views, even if I dis­agree with them.
(iii) I pledge to chal­lenge oth­ers’ behav­iour when it is not con­sis­tent with pledge (ii).
(iv) I pledge that if my behaviour is challenged as in pledge (iii) that I will take the comments on board without turning it into a needless personal issue, or adopting some sort of victim status.
(v) I pledge to respect the con­sen­sus view­point of the forum and its mem­bers with regards to deci­sion mak­ing.
(vi) I pledge to treat the peo­ple that put their time, effort and money into run­ning and main­tain­ing the site with the respect that they deserve, even when I disagree with their decisions, and accept that the very nature of the legal status of the forum means that sometimes their decisions are final.

Obviously this is entirely voluntary, but I've paid my pound, and I guarantee I will never be in breach of any of those six pledges. I assure you that I am adult enough to stick to them.

Everyone else can do whatever they want, but I think it would be a good gesture if everyone who intends to contribute regularly to the forum does the same.

I make every effort to keep my word, so I only give it when I am sure about what I am promising.

Some of the pledges I wouldn't hesitate to make, but others are very open to interpretation.

pledge iii) for example could be seen as "adopting a victim status"

mikey mikey wrote: Challenging others' behaviour would be pointing out to others when they've been rude and abusive, or failed to respect others' opinions.

A 'victim status' can best be defined by the following:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality#Features
There is no overlap between the two.

As I say, this is entirely voluntary, I've paid my pound, everyone else can do whatever they want.

WUB i think your idea is a good one, however there is indeed every chance that somebody will find the overlap.

I will demonstrate: Challenging others' behaviour would be pointing out to others when they've been rude and abusive, or failed to respect others' opinions

If one agrees upon what constittues "failure to respect another's opinion" and what constitutes challenging that opinion.

Moreover:

Blaming others for a situation that one has created oneself or significantly contributed to. Failing or being unwilling to take responsibility for one's own actions or actions to which one has contributed.

- Ascribing non-existent negative intentions to other people..

If one agrees that the intention is non existant and also agree that the person allegedly assuming victim status is to blame for their situation.

Both of these are highly unlikely imho
I offered a suggestion of guidleins of my own and I tried to avoid various avenues of interpretation

I hope you check them out

Well my pledge for SZ remains what it always was.

As I posted on monday, in the announcement thread...

And I stand by every word of that.

Andy has now decided he doesn't want to take over the ownership of SZ. Fair play and I understand and respect his decision.

I am as we speak however looking into all the options to best insure that SZ can continue on into the future as the community here wishes it to.

mikey mikey wrote: It's really quite straightforward. I can say quite easily that I will...

- be polite to others;
- respect others' views;
- challenge those that are rude and abusive;
- treat the people that own, run and finance the site with respect;
- never play the victim card;
- and pay £1 for the privilege of using the site.

If other people don't feel able or willing to do those things, that's fine. It's entirely optional. I think at the very least people should put up a measly £1 for this year, and do the same next year.

am cool with the idea of showing respect - challenging those who dont and generally being a good egg whilst still speaking my mind - as for the £1 count me in - just need a way to pay it that does not involve needing a bank account, paypal account, credit or debit card - as I have none of the above.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
Well I think that it leaves things open to wide interpretation.

For instance, where does respect become defference? Why should I not afford all members respect that I show the people running the site? How does one tell whether somebody is playing the victim card or has a genuine grievance?

It's not a question of being willing or able. It's a question of practicality.

I think that it is difficult to really pin down what 'showing respect' is and we could never draft anything that will encapsulate every possible scenario - but we are all adults and should by now know what is and what is not blatant disrespect. It is situational and differs from poster to poster and the relationships between posters.

I do think however that if someone feels disrespected that speaking up and saying so is not a bad thing and that people should not be afraid to apologise or clarify their position - and perhaps this way grudges will not build up and end up polluting the place. There is a lot to be said for just letting go. Personally I am trying not to hold grudges and have decided to give people the benefit of the doubt as to their intentions when posting as otherwise I will just end up bogged down in petty crap that frankly I can do without. I am choosing to trust others to show me the courtesy I show them - If I am ever rude or obnoxious feel free to point it out - I really dislike causing offense to others so would prefer to be told if I have done so in order to apologise or rephrase - and shall speak up for myself if I feel others are being obnoxious - and give them a chance to explain incase I have read it wrong - If we can agree at least to that simple premise we are well on our way imho.

Sorry...I couldn't resist

mikey mikey wrote: If you don't feel able to, or want to, sign up to those pledges then don't. If you can't spare a pound then don't pay it. It's quite simple really. I'm just saying that I will, and I think others should. Everyone has the right to do the complete opposite, if they so choose.thoreau wrote: I find it hard to believe you could cause offence, thoreau.

Really, the whole thing could be defined in a very straightforward way. We could all pledge to behave like adults, not kids. Unfortunately, I've been in many groups of adults, and have yet to see any of them behaving in such fashion for a consistent period of time. Group holidays end in arguments, workplaces end up with everyone hating each other, and people forgetting to stab each other in the back and stabbing each other in the front, families are...well, families, and so on. So I think it needs a bit more definition than that, but adults should instinctively know how to behave like an adult. Unfortunately, they don't.

If you wanted to make a financial contribution you could possibly post a postal order to one of the site owners if they're willing to give you their address.

irrepressible wrote: There's a word there that I'm not familiar with. 'Dust'. What does that mean? How do you do that?

wake_up_bomb wrote:
I agreed with the paying of the pound (if not more) when you first suggested it.

I was only offering my opinions on the wording of the pledges.

If it's a yay or nay thing, with no discusssion whether to change some aspects of the wording, then I will hesitate rather than make a pledge that is so open to interpretation.

That doesn't mean that I don't agree with the spirit of it. Nor do I refuse to make pledges on principal.

But with promises and pledges words count.