This ones from the organic grey, please forgive the spelling mistakes, I will Make up for them later.

What drew me towards the alternative news, or as many a seasoned forumer today might say, not so alternative, was my inquisitiveness into finding out what real alternatives others were actually doing for themselves, that might elieviate the ptoblems many had unwhitingly followed the pied pipers into.

What one can immediately recognise is, many of the same news outlets from either sides of the spectrum apearing on the screen of many choices.. The easy riding topics of, Money, Sex/Porn, Religion, Pollotics, Drugs, are the most popular and collect the most brownie points. Yet real life studies of a non or immediate nature, viable alternatives are treated as if they are alien to their percieved normality if that makes scence?

The most popular daily news items are slowly but surely starting to mirror and dilute the truth news on a regular basis, even the bbc are regulary mentioning main truth movement news, like Tessla and many other once forbiden sciences.

Another thing I have noticed is a reluctence to share any skills based subjects, as if they were also tabloid tabboo's, what thid really tells me is, the ones not sharing anything, have been well and truly trained not to help themselves out of situations that I know, from speaking to hundreds, really wish they could change their situation, butdon' t know how.

For me its easy to say and do these things, but for the majority they are trapped, locked into a System Varroa, that they are themselves part of the feeding frenzy taking place, when all they need to do is see something being done to spark the minds eye to hand coordinations into life. This model is on the whole barred when asked for, here in the very begining??


You know me, I says things as l do them, just saying, what have we done today in the chat room that has helped save our sanity of money.

Recent post have shown what one wo/man alone can achieve, after collecting the knowledge to perform in many different fields, not fields that are greener over the wall in anothers meadow, but greener because they fertilised their minds with knowledge from other hands and minds and hand to eye coordinations.
There is reality on a scale of 1 to 10, how vunerable does the throng feel or is willing to confess to, a subject that many must face in order of recognising their own slow suffering/sanctions and the other side of the coin where perpetual suffering is taking place in their name on another scale of 1 to 10.

Silence is the golden child suffering.

The Apprentice wrote:
What I will say on this is not everybody has a drive inside them to do something. What I do find funny is that yourself has managed to sort a living out on the dales.
Andyh fucked off from the UK to Paddy land with nothing and sorted himself out.
Myself made a choice many years ago to make a move and get out of Saaaaaaarf London and settle down in the country .
Common denominator

entrangermercenary1 wrote: All three of you were fortunate to survive your earlier decisions to hand your destinies over for a shilling?

I do not strive to make others sort themselves out to be like another, mearly pointing out what can be achieved. there is however a common lower denominating mindset within society, to halt certain processes, if this thought energy could be used in a positive direction then who knows what those minds could acheive.

These kinds of discussion bring out all of these possibilities and emotional-cons.

feather wrote:
One could'nt be more wrong in my case Feather, I had already gained my true life skills and trades first. then my scense of adventure volaunteered to go a travelling, because I wanted to, not because I had too.

The Apprentice wrote:
You signed on the line App.

I know the command line did not then consult with you, or seek your approval for where they'd send you next and what to do when you got there. You were fortunate to survive that.



I find you make huge assumptions about people.
I, for instance, also served my apprenticeship. I'm a time-served Fabrication, Fitter-Welder City and Guilds passed with credits.
In my time I've fabricated all sorts, oil storage tanks, forge crafted scroll-work gates, machined parts for General Motors farming equipment, Oil Rig sections for gov't of Abu Dhabi, Stage sets for theatres and y'know what? After learning the techniques and processes, doing that stuff everyday bored the arse off me. I ended up hating every minute.

It wasn't like some episode of Blue Peter meets Jack Hargreaves where they show you how to make pretty copper dibbers for Uncle Bob's allotment. It was graft, total drudgery, dangerous work in shit conditions, for lousy pay.

So I jacked it in and did other stuff with my life.

I don't feel the requirement to preach daily to others to follow my path or repent their ways. Neither do I have the audacity to believe I have life figured.

No assumptions about others, no, visuals of myself. As a coded welder in my day, and engineer, now a craftsman in dibbers and boots etec, made a few changes to my own direction as yourself, good for those that do. Some times its what others need to visualise, the people are out there who can help, we are these people.

I did sign the dotted line for a type of servitude, but my direction where ever possible didn't rest there, I soon saw the better sides of my service and steered myself towards the medical kind, which took me off the streeets of Belfast and into the nice warm hospitals, where I gained even more skills.

The thing in all of this debate is to share, not ridicule which I have never done, that said its getting going after a bump, this is how we can all enlighten the paradigm, its all good in my eyes.

entrangermercenary1 wrote:
Not forgetting that some people have a propensity to lie and don't even know they are doing it.

Explain exactly without vague intimation's how somebody with no money in the bank or property to sell moves to the countryside and finds somewhere to live and survive?

jump in at the deep end?

humanspirit wrote:
First of all get a rich bird who lives in the country then marry her

Its about innovation, internal drive to succeed and luck. I got lucky, but fuck I also worked hard to get my sheep, chickens, ducks and pigs.

No money in the bank !! Go get some
Ive edited as you need a clear example...

Now if Im in the country in the next few months I will be going out elvering on the River and Estuary to make a few £ . That means being out all hours of the nite in rain, snow what ever the wind conditions. Now I dont have to do it, but its extra money, but its also very hard to crawl out of bed at 0100hrs to go freeze your nads off for a few hundred quid when its extras. Thats called internal drive.
It also enables me to see the state of the local wildlife and check on the survival gaffs I will be going to if it ever goes tits up.

humanspirit wrote:
In all honesty that is a tall order for most., But I have an answer. Many years ago I met up with someone through another freind who was training me in a certain skill. This guy was a tellented self taught musician, who living from couch to couch, busking his way around the north east of England and for a time in Ireland. He asked me if he could come and stay we us, to help me learn the finer part of his musical skill which I was undertaking, the making of his instrument. He stayed with us for four months in which time we both learned much from each other.
In that time he busked away the summer months and also helped me to hone certain skills I was lacking, at the end of this reciprocation he saved enough money to rent a place of his own and carry on making things he would have never been able to do without a base in which to shelter and learn.

Hope that helps, many have done this but the avenues are getting shorter and shorter.

I don't think someone should be derided for wanting to live a certain lifestyle Apprentice. What you're doing is admirable and I think you're a very interesting person. I just don't think you should worry about what other people get up to so much. They're not "less than" because they've made different choices to you.

I think the world has changed for good, so many skills these days are digital. I don't think those skills are any less important than what you do. Ideally we should use old skills and new to try and create a society where everyone has equal opportunities.

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
Things is LP many want certain lifestyles but don't care how they get it, its partly their own fault and deciphered by a mindset that has been manufactured by technology, where tech is concerned I have a lot of it at my disposal, like 3D CAD design and computers, right up there with the bofffins, but what I make cannot be made using certain avenues of the new language.

I really don't worry about how others are wasting their lives, if I did I would'nt get anything done myself, instead I help them to help themselves, its really simple, not very hard to share what one already knows as your doing it they are seeing it, not time is wasted, this is what people think they should not be doing, mason like, not giving away trade secrets, it does'nt work for the whole, fails the majority every time.

I find myself pretty ordinary actually, the way I move is just another way of doing things, I learned only what interested me in school nothing else, was taught to do the things that I liked best, everything else was and is a waste of time in a free society, many cannot grasp the fact that this is how things should be, period, far more gets achieved this way.

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
Thats actually a good post LPS.
It pretty much aligns with what I think too. Old skills are good to have, trouble is they're just of less use in certain places (location is important here) because robots have replaced them. By robots I mean production lines etc.
Tech has always been a double edged sword, we all know that but people have to make a living somehow and adapt for the best wherever they are and thats basically what we do.

I have heard the term, Transformation not Reformation, many times, I like to and can move in and out of these different paradigms as the needs be.

Solidworks and four axis one day, gardening the old way the next, computers to compost for a brain I have, and I like it, it works. Bring in the old and the new, they have always existed, like oxen ploughing in a field in Cuba to a Whites combine on the fields of Kansas.

We will always need both, because if you go totally in one direction, that road will lead absolutely nowhere.

andyh wrote:
It's not the tech that is at fault. In fact, we really have the potential to do some positive things, such as giving 'locked-in' patients a way to communicate via brainwaves. That's an extreme example, but something like this just hasn't been possible before now. On a more mundane level, we have the internet allowing people to connect in a way that wasn't possible before now.

I know you're interested in transhumanism. The future is likely to be quite dark, but that's only because of the people who hold the power.

Apprentice. When I was involved in Transition Towns for a bit, I noticed that the people who were self sufficient were able to be like that because they had chosen to be. They were all well educated and relatively affluent. Very affluent in some cases. Are these the sort of people you normally come across?

I'm interested, because I thought it was a shame that unemployed people weren't getting involved. To do what you're propsing you need to be time rich, money rich and preferably both. Unemployed people are time rich, but I think they are put off. The whole sustainability thing is very middle class and I feel that unemployed people who aren't well eductated might feel intimidated. I have been to Uni and I own my home outright and I'm just an ordinary working class person at the end of the day, and not Transition fodder. These people were loaded and thought that most people would have a spare 5 to 10 grand to spend on wall insulation and other things. This was just the cheep plebby stuff. In my experience most people I know don't have spare money for that. I'f I was going to spend 5 to 10k it would be on seeing more of the world and going on more holidays. That's frankly less boring than working out how many tons of carbon are being wasted by your house and putting expensive boards up. That sort of thing succks the joy out of everything.

I am learning how to restore antiques at the moment, but I don't think that's quite the sort of skill you mean.

I am interested in coming to see what you do in your neck of the woods if that's ok though.

PS, I'm on the baileys again this evening, so drunken rambling. Will try not to repeat myself, say rude things or be annoying.

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
I agree again yep.
Myself and the missus got from Venice to Rome in 3 hours at an affordable price.
Stuff like this allows for some very positive things, it is indeed the guys who run the show who bother me, technology is not something to be worried about on its own.

The more people and places I see the better my life experience and wisdom, thats what the game is all about imho. Enjoy it.



Thats the same sort of train we went on...1st class ofc

I just don't see how somebody could move to the countryside who rents in the city on a low income?

Norman tebbit would love this thread with the get on your bike attitude.

Most poor people aren't living how they want,that's terrible to assume a starving person in Africa chooses to live that way or a homeless person chooses that lifestyle

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
What we do is on the threads for all to see, the LETS and Transition punters in our groups here are all upper middle class, some have plots to grow food but have wasted many opportunities to get a decent flow of food for themselves. Myself are the lower level DIY'r with many of the skills which the others have to date totally ignored bar one, who is of similar ilk.

By all means search out this articifier, who can share a home grown meal as long as you bring a bottle of Baileys only kidding.

Restoring antiques is an admirable passtime, your going to work on some of the best hand to eye coordination not found very often today, a freind of ours does just this and French polishes as well, he is also wurth a visit while your in the area.

I was invited to our TT lecture, and immediately I saw their green agenda and global warming model in full flow, I gave my opinion and was basically ostracised from the off. I did however listened in the background to witness true blindness in motion and rows of Audi and Land Rovers in the car park. The elite have done a bloody good job at teaching non sciences to no scientists, my own weather recordings and others says something different.
Self sufficientists in the group are not doing it through skills but money and act acordingly as basically hobbyists, we do it using skills and get the job done on the need to do it. I have given the rest of our growing group all the evidence they will ever need in the things that come from the free time we have.