knobhead wrote:
Ooh you are a tease. What is where on SZ?

I like what Knobhead is saying, and I agree that it's numbers that can possibly make a difference. If the numbers are small - which I believe they would be - then all participants would likely just be lining themselves up for trouble. But if a large number of people were to voice their non-support and outrage, and demand something be done, then that would be a different matter. It's just that I can't see that ever happening.

Gilly wrote:
Neither can i gilly. The reaction in this very thread from supposedly switched on people is testament to that fact.
As long as people can chat shit on forums they're happy. Some seem happy in their enlightened ego bubble. ask them to walk the talk and they just go for taking the piss. Sad state of affairs.
Egocentric apathetic complacency. That's why the fuckers get away with this stuff.

We're not the enemy.

knobhead wrote:
You asked us to phone the plod and report MP's, not walk the talk, walk your talk, some of us questioned this as a tactic. You've given no reason for us to think it's anything other than a poor tactic.

SZ isn't the enemy, specifically. If 100% of the members here felt incited to do something anyway, we'd be less than a spit in the ocean. But are we collectively, as a society, our own enemy because of our inaction I wonder? I don't know what the answer is, because I do believe that if we united in opposition, we'd make progress, but there are so many individual reasons why we (society) will never unite and do anything imo. And it's an opportunity missed to improve things for future generations.

As it goes I'm too busy trying to hold the police accountable for their excessive violence to be ringing them to ask for their help.

Good luck with your campaign knobhead.

psketti wrote: Imho we are all our own worst enemies. We know whats going on but we do nothing. Well, some do. I contend that folk like coates with his 911 inside job painted van do more of value than a trillion bytes of enlightened chit chat in an obscure forum.
We enable our oppressors by our inaction. It's an in your face form of cognitive dissonance.
For instance, Andy espouses the value of using the system against itself through self employment. He seems to have a brainfart at the thought of collectively using the system of laws in this context though. To my mind this renders the words hollow. Perhaps even a smokescreen for petit bourgeois pretense

If someone were to commit a crime against his family, would he wage one man retribution? Would oioioi?
If someone owed Andy 50k for invoiced work and refused to pay would he not use the system? Those are rhetorical ofc.

My point is using the system against itself in matters such as this context does have value. Any rebuttal of that merely betrays a lack of real conviction in my view.

oioioi wrote: A worthy mission indeed! Good luck with that and I genuinely mean it. If I can help in any way just ask. You have my email.
You are still totally missing my point though. So far only gilly has got it.

Edit: if 1000 people reported Hague's terrorist activity what would the outcome be? Either plod's hand would be forced and they'd have to hold Hague accountable or the plod itself would be shown as nowt but the protector of state and would itself be held accountable. Either outcome being good. If 1 reports it, f all happens but they get bumped up the list for when the clampdown happens

knobhead wrote:
Joining a forum with the nick knobhead and then posting this shite, yes definitely

knobhead wrote:
If you were serious at all you would have reported the above, given that its several orders of magnitude more important than arming either side in a civil war over a thousand miles away.

knobhead wrote:
Someone owing me 50k for work done is different than using the system to complain about the system, they make the law, not you.
Please do keep ringing the plod, with any luck they'll eventually shove you in the nick for wasting their time.

If they bother you that much go get a gun and shoot them because thats what you will literally have to do.

knobhead wrote:
1000?? Have to be a lot more than that. George Monbiot has a far larger public profile than you, but his urging people to perform citizen's arrests of Blair came to nowt.

Essentially, they only care about their own internal rules. That's why you can go to prison for lying about a speeding ticket but end up a very rich international consultant by ordering death from above.

Maybe so, but painting "911 inside job" on your van will have about as much impact on changing society as tattooing "ACAB" on your forehead.

Gimmicks don't work. The only way you'll ever effect change is by slogging away trying to get people to organise themselves in their workplace and community.

andyh wrote:
I think knobhead is a fair description or myself so balls to your apparent dislike of it

You think I am posting shite? That's a tad rich ain't it. Your best effort is to encourage everyone to flee their homelands and build themselves a nice comfortable life as a microcosm of the big shite microcosm, and you say I'm talking shite.

knobhead wrote: Dislikes the wrong word, I find it bloody funny tbh.

If their homeland is no longer their land then yep its time to get the fuck out and live somewhere decent.
Problem solved.
Keep phoning the cops though

andyh wrote:
I'm not understanding why you think it's shite, Andy. There have been cases where force of opinion (volume) has had an impact - you've commented on that yourself in the past. Don't you think that if people en-mass got round to passionately speaking up, there'd be fear generated amongst the upper echelons, and action would need to be seen to be taken (albeit with the sacrifice of some of their own)?

“There comes a time when silence is betrayal.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.

dogsmilk wrote: I do get what you're saying there and totally agree that steps towards an 'alternative' are the best thing we can do. Community building, skilling up, assessing our own impact etc are all the kinds of areas where our prime focus could perhaps best be placed. However I think the odd gimmick on top or that is well worthy. Be that a painted van, a collective flooding of plodded phone lines or whatever.

Gilly wrote:
Call the cops and report it.
After they hang up on you the first time and you ring them again do let me know what happens, preferably before they drag you off in the paddy wagon though

Get real ffs lol.

Isn't a slogan on a van as effective as a plea for action on the internet?

What you are andy is a defeatist who has convinced himself that running to the hills and mimicking the man is in some way sticking it to the man. In many ways I feel sorry for you.
You may see no value in collective action such as that I am trying to encourage, thats fine. I see no value in ego inflatint condescending hollow chat personally.