so the op, why?

Mike wrote:
Because as truthers we just can't seem to come together and get along and it's discouraging.

Take the DIF for example, probably alot of good people there who wan't the world to be a better place.

But I won't even log on there and sort thru all the Doom to hear what people there have to say anymore.

Another example is guns in America, we need to get rid of all these guns so kids can stop shooting each other.

But Americans will never give up their guns as long as the United Kingdom is still ruled by a Monarchy.

Another example is all this war in the Middle East, sure we all wan't this war to end.

But then how can we keep Israel safe and stop Muslims from executing girls in the street that wan't education.

The truth about truthers is that our numbers are so small we can easily be controlled and OWS proved that.

I'm really not even trying to sound negative, but problems on earth are complex no matter what perspective.

.......... wrote: lol wut?

.......... wrote:
Don't let it all get to you man, it's all huevos anyway. Individually you can do SFA about the outside world, which your mind creates, until you heal yourself.........man TRUE!!

feather wrote:
Yes we have the Second Amendment to keep us free of the British monarchy.

Problem is in 1791 we never would have thought over 200 years the UK would still be under the Sceptre in 2013.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_t..._States_Constitution

But once people in the UK get enough heart to become free of the Sceptre the US won't need the 2nd Amendment anymore.

Because basically so called truthers talk about a load of irrelevant shit instead of concentrating on what matters the most and focusing on passing on that info. Its well documented, not a conspiracy theory and in your face as it gets. Everybody makes use of it and is a slave to it every day of their lives, it directs everything on this planet.

andyh wrote:
Well what matters the most and also what is the hold up then?

.......... wrote: I agree with your last part, what I think you'd find is that "truth movement" as a label attracts people with political agendas that differ from "seeking truth", and under the guise of truth, all kinds of reactionary nonsense is pushed as a response to the complex situation you describe.

I'd say the reason "truthers" don't come together is because they don't seek truth, they seek confirmation of their personal opinions, so within truth you have various divisions anyway, religious truther, socialist truther, fascist truther, entrepreneur truther, reactionary truther, petit bourgeois truther etc

.......... wrote:
The monetary system.
The hold up is the ingrained belief in it.

.......... wrote:
Actually no.
The 2nd amendment provides protection to the individual states of the union to form militias (armed citizens), to defend against an oppressive federal government. Nothing to do with the brits, monarchies or sceptres.

Words = clues ...........
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

I agree with Mike.
Truth is what you believe it to be.
A truther is someone who agrees with your view.

Mike wrote:
Well said, your summary of "truthers" is very on point.

Problem is that is exactly were we are stuck at...

And those same examples you state are the same reasons a place like the DIF will always be divided and full of Doom.

But you'll get the same situation at a political party conference, a summit of economists, football supporters in a bar, etc.
There are very, very few definitive 'truths'.

If they talk about religion and politics and woo woo stuff what do they expect?

.......... wrote: If you trace it to the root, man himself, you will see various "tendencies" are inherently divisive/elitist, a major tendency I notice with truthers and it seems to accompany absolutist convictions, is the idea that the majority of people, the people around you are idiots, unaware etc, the less they understand anything you talk about, the "more aware" you get, the more your assumptions regarding their ignorance are confirmed, the more conspiracy theories regarding society, education, fluoride and the mass media being used to dumb people down gain credence.

Within the Aristocracy there was inherent division, competition and jealousy, "real" aristocrats would distinguish themselves from somebody who married into money, you'd have various tiers of "Aristocrat" within the Aristocracy in general, the same sort of divisions exist at all levels of todays Bourgeois society, people have pre judgements, fixed concepts and value systems which influence, inhibit and interpenetrate, human interactions in everyday life, historical divisions have been given life by the internet, cultural designations and distinctions have been revived, racism, xenophobia, mysticism, religious absolutism that we thought were beyond resurgence are active in the minds of the disillusioned masses, some of the worst aspects of religious thought have been given new forms in the Truth movement.

So to me the point is to focus on what divisions actually exist what they signify, especially the one's you create, the opposite of the TM which seems to advocate the idea that you can just imagine political, ethical, philosophical disagreements and the Left Right paradigm don't exist, or need to be abandoned to institute a NeoFascist or Utopian Futurist alternative, it's destined to never get anywhere containing such huge inherent contradictions and being based on the doctrine denial of those contradictions.

Mike wrote:
Well said Mike...

The truther term grew out of 911 specifically and didn't really have any broader truth in common. Over years of investigation etc there were soon huge numbers of truthers but when they got together the only thing they actually agreed on was that the official report was a lie. Some truthers blame Jews some blame government etc etc.

These days I think of these reality tunnels much the same as any other. Whether you believe the official story or ufo's and holograms I think the point in life is to find common ground with people that you are fundamentally opposed to. The problem is when a truther sees the truth as one rigid thing and will not sway an inch and sees any other views as unacceptably false and holders of such views are seen as the enemy.

Personally for me, it is immensely frustrating to be on the verge of a total economic armageddon, which should be blindingly obvious, and yet very few people have even got the slightest idea about it. And this is the problem I've encountered with every activist group that I've been involved with, ultimately all of the solutions that people can come up with, and there are practical things that people can do, require large numbers of people to do them if there is going to be any significant social change enacted. But you can never get even close to enough people interested, in fact you're more likely to come across people that are actively hostile or mocking towards you, even though you're trying to help them out!

It's totally pointless at this point in time to be sitting here talking about CT because wherever you're sitting in the world reading this, it is coming to you, unless you're in a part of the world that has already been subsumed. If in Britain, for example, we get away with a mere repeat of what has occurred in Cyprus, we would be extremely lucky indeed, and certainly things will get much, much worse than that. Yet, as I said, very few people have any idea about it. I spoke to numerous people about Cyprus while it was happening, even in a bank(!), as did Gilly, and no-one even knew it was happening, let alone understood the medium-term implications for themselves, which have already been documented, and are already part of official policy. But they will kick and scream like babies when it affects them.

We're living on this planet where billions live in abject poverty, and most people never give this any consideration whatsoever, or think that it all happened by accident and that it could never possibly happen in Britain (even though it has in the past) because we're a civilised country. Hmmm, let's wait and see! The socio-economic system we're living in is completely documented, we have all the co-ordinates and facts to be able to understand it and see how it came into being. 'Truthers' and CTs don't even come into the equation, this is merely reality.

CT's and Truthers in the past represent a reactionary tendency during socio-economic changes, that's the origin of Freemasonic/Jewish conspiracies during the French Revolution, as you say yourself we're living through such a period of massive change now, CT Truthing etc exists predominantly as a conservative cultural tendency.

You sound a little like Dreadnaught/Cathetar, you use the financial doom angle, whereas he uses physical doom, same difference, when Labour get in they'll start borrowing again to create growth so I'd not be too worried if I were you.

Mike wrote:
ftfy