A week or so ago we had a closed event here for a group of around 300 people.

Those people were a denomination/sect of orthodox Jews who all speak German as their main language.
The first few people I interacted with were foul. Obnoxious, rude, bullish and definitely looking down their noses at me big time.
I'm not one for pre-judging folk so as more people came my way I was treating them all as individuals and not painting them with the same brush as their predecessors.

It didn't take long to realise that every single one of them had exactly the same attitude to outsiders.
Namely they aren't fit to shovel shit. That night other people that work here got the same treatment i did. The women got worse, one was even kicked in the head.

A rabbit was strangled to death, ponies were whipped, one person even attempted to cut a pony...

They decimated the place. Turned it into a dump. Including shitting in the park. They wouldn't leave at the end of the evening and gave major attitude when we politely asked them to board the busses.

This is only a snippet of their actions. There was plenty more. They were loathsome, to a man, woman and child.


These folk with their hateful self righteousness and superiority complex of course drag the wider adherents of Judaism into the arena that nans and the like get mileage out of. They were a nan's wet dream...

Touchy subject but please discuss.

Its a self perpetuating thing. Once embedded in culture it remains.
It works the other way too for positive reinforcement for example, so nice people can get even nicer over time and as a group.

To them their behaviour is quite normal, the NaN's are just as culturally biased as the jews in the above example.
If we have a mixed community with strong positive cultural influlence on a 'lead by example' basis for a long period of time then all the people in the mix despite their previous cultures will abandon it.
Unfortunately it takes generations to do and ofc such social engineering has been done before and is ongoing today for all the wrong reasons.

Treating other people with respect for example is not something I would associate with religious behaviour at all, no matter which one you could care to choose. Americans are Christians and look at how they treat people, same applies to muslims.
I see religion as being a negative influence and secular humanism as the much more modern and smaller culture trying to battle for supremacy over these others.
There are aspects to culture that are not religious of course, religion is merely one aspect of it that you can easily identify, people will often choose food and drink as one of the other biggies

Tbf Andy I think you fell into a bit of a trap there.
Not all yanks are xtians. Not all xtians have a holier than though approach to others. Not all muslims want Sharia or want to kill the infidel etc.
Those that do however give power to those that would like to paint all members of groups as the same.

knobmeup wrote:
Its really obvious that I wouldn't intend to say that all Americans are Christians, but their prevailing culture is just that.
The prevailing UK culture is actually not christian at all, its distinctly agnostic/atheist now. The UK is actually more socially advanced than the US IMHO.
The prevailing xtian outlook unfortunately is as I stated, just as the prevailing muslim outlook is for sharia law etc.

This is what I meant by it taking time for the majority outlook to change. Its the majority influence that pushes things along and ofc the majority are by and large pretty pig ignorant and predictable tbh.
They vote labour/tory/libdem, they look after number1 and by and large they are actually happy with the status quo.
Sports and tits are of more interest to the men and fashion/bling is of more interest to the women, thats your current culture for you basically.

If something akin to the venus project was prevailing culture then we'd be enjoying ourselves instead of having this convo because it would be a type of culture we could participate in...at least until the next big think comes along

I think there is also a tendency to 'act up' when we are put into the context of a group identity. I act more like a football fan when I meet my fellow football fans, same with the punks etc. I do feel this is why stereotypes are difficult to dismiss because they tend to have a basis in reality, the problem is, as you pointed out, although it may be a good rule of thumb that's all it is, not a hard and fast rule E.G. punks drink a lot, generally true but of course you then have 'straight edge' which completely defies this generalisation whilst not making it a non-applicable general rule.

I have an experience fairly regularly where I will hear a topic being discussed, and everyone is getting completely the wrong end of the stick – to put it mildly – and I will just politely explain to them what is really going on. I’m never confrontational about it, but I won’t pull any punches in terms of sugar coating my viewpoint, and I’m not really overly concerned about people disagreeing with me. And this will almost without exception meet with resistance, often very strong or even aggressive resistance. Of course, the person in question will have little or nothing to back up their views, and I will calmly and emphatically prove them to be completely wrong.

But it never changes their opinion. If anything they become more entrenched in their views the less logical and sound they are revealed to be. And I think it’s partly because of what Andy is saying that their views and mentality are reflected by the majority, by all of their peers, by everyone that they come into contact with, so even when they’re confronted by the reality that they’re evidentially completely incorrect, or that their views are even baseless, this is easily dismissed because the majority still agree with them. The majority are wrong, but it doesn’t matter about this, as long as you have the comfort of having the majority of people on your side then you can believe farcical things and behave ludicrously, but your values will always be reflected back to you.

It’s what’s often referred to as a ‘herd mentality’. If you take the example in the OP, there could have been, and probably were, people amongst the group who realised that they were behaving badly. But one of those people would need to have the guts to speak out, when the individual involved will probably, quite correctly, recognise that if they do this there will be negative consequences for them. They will almost certainly be attacked, and possibly be completely ostracised permanently.

you just got to judge people on who they are.. im pretty sure them being jewish doesnt teach them to be dicks to everyone. but if it does, i guess they were just dicks anyway.

batou wrote:
They're probably capable of being decent people, but their upbringing and environment teaches them that they are superior.
The nazis were exactly the same thing basically. Same shit in opposition

I get what has been said about herd mentality, perhaps that was a factor in this case. However that doesn't really change anything. The 'culture' was and is loathsome. If folk choose to be like all the others, they are equally loathsome in my book. This attitude was there in all of them.

Bats, I did go by what each individual brought to me. Each one brought what I described in the OP.

1 - A few years ago I had some dealings with some Orthodox lads. Had a few meetings with them and found them to be a bunch of snotty and rude gits. Never spoke to me or even acknowledged my presence and all conversation was translated to me by their legal fella. The legal beagle later told me that even though they could get by in English they couldn't bear to talk to someone like me. Also explains why they wouldn't even look at me.

2 - I have a really cool Israeli friend and her family are some of the nicest folk I've ever met.

3 - I did some work for an ultra Sikh family (complete with hairy chicks) in London a while back and they were a whinny pain in the arse. Argued with me constantly and at one point I nearly came to blows with the eldest son - an odious pig of a man.

4 - One of the only school days chums I stay in contact with is a Sikh chap called Indi. Over the years I've been to a few of his family bashes and have been treated as an extended family member. I still kinda fancy his sister.

I've tended to find that it's the super serious religious types that seem to have the worst attitudes.

Not knowingly had any dealings with the Mormons yet so for now I'll use Mittney Romney as a template and consider them all twats. I look forward to being corrected.

hugorune wrote:
Basically any conservative, be they the religious zealot or the political ones they're all of the same ilk.
IMHO its just slight variations on the same successful social programming thats worked for thousands of years.

You issue them with pieces of paper and you just stay in control of issuing the bits of paper and you're sorted, amazing really.

At this point I'd like to emphasise that this bunch weren't just rude and obnoxious. They were murderous. They literally saw no reason why they couldn't torture the animals here. As I said in the OP they even got hold of a rabbit and strangled it. Only the frantic running about of the animals team prevented more hideous acts. Scum is the word I'd use and I don't use that word lightly.

A bit of religious pomposity is one thing...then there's this kind of vile indoctrination and subsequent hideousness.

andyh wrote:
I'm rather inclined to think that the recent ancestors of this crowd were of the ilk that got shall I say um too close to Hitler...

What kind of gathering was this dubs?

These folk have taboos on mixing with 'outsiders' Sket. They therefore hired the place for an evening so that they could have it to themselves. It was a good old jolly for them I guess.


BTW, I guess you meant to say "knobs"

knobmeup wrote:
Ah ok. I just wondered how they felt they had the right to do the things they did.





... although, you'll always be dubs to me

I guess that adherence to certain texts and lifelong indoctrination is what leads them to think they have the right Sket.

Well they don't.

Agreed.

These folk have no concern that 'outsiders' may not take kindly to their path. No concern for the ramifications that obviously befall the wider Jewish populace. No concern for anything other than themselves from what I can see...They literally don't seem to give a fig (obscure ref to a bygone chatroom character)

Well in that case, they should also be prepared to come up against these 'outsiders' when they do them wrong.


EDIT - wasn't 'fig' sean?