O. M. G. I just had to start a thread in here - because, I mean, it's like when you get to the swimming pool and no one has been in it yet. Aaahhhh.

Anyway, something that intrigues me: since looking into matters etheric and spiritual, I've come across the ideas countless times that we are here on earth to learn and experience various situations, good and bad. We are Spirit having a Human experience, etc., you all know the kind of stuff.

So, are we saying that spirit cannot learn where it lives/comes from? Can't experience or develop and "ascend" in... what do I call it?... Spiritland?

I would have thought that Spirit is far more able to anything (except manipulate earthly substance) than mere Humans?

I think the spirit can learn, but it learns on a different level of experience.
Like this is the physical world, the 3D world and we have certain lessons to learn here, and certain things to experience before we move on to being able to learn at the next level. The spirit level where matter is not as dense and solid may just be the next level in a long line of levels that we must learn at.

Or it could be just that we forgot and got bored and found some human vessels to play around with

Or maybe somebody put us in these things

This reminds me of a saying my Grandpa had, "Live and learn. Die and forget it all." I've always believed in reincarnation but I wondered if we retain what we learned in a past life. Does the cycle go on forever? Constant reincarnation? Do we ever "ascend" or whatever? These are the kind of questions that make me crazy because I feel I'll never get the answer!

Good thread!

well if you put a lion in a cage and it turns into a fat cat, but if you let it out it will show you its still a killing machine. similar?

No, because it was not really a fat cat. It was a caged lion that pretended to be a fat cat.

Excellent threadage, cantata.

I believe that 'spirit' has no need to learn, as it already just is everything. I think the reason that spirit may 'choose' to express itself as a human being, a table, a tree etc. is simply to know how it is to NOT be everything all at once (although in reality it always is).

The one thing it CANNOT experience in its natural state of being.

Ab Origine wrote:
Yeah, I'm very with this, Abs. It seems to me that whatever a spirit may choose to be or experience, it must ultimately be a dumbing down of what it actually is. It would surely "learn" less or "experience" less when held in by any particular form on this heavily ruled and supposedly dense plane.

The puzzle is: why would it WANT not to experience everything at once, infinite love always, the pleasures of True Freedom and ultimate abilities?

In all honestly, the few people I've met along my way who do live True Love, Real Freedom, Absolute Appreciation and Total Fulfilment... love it and want more. They are far from "bored" with being completely happy in a lovely world. Even as "just Humans", they don't see the need to destroy that and "experience" hardship and misery so that they can appreciate the lovely existence they once had; nor do they feel they can "learn" anything from being left in hardship or unhappiness.

So, why apparently would Spirit? And then, when it does... what's the push to rise above the misery and try to slog back to where it always could have been....? Surely it would revel in it's dearthly plight, you know, Job done, kind of thing?

I dunno - I'm just trying to work out which is Thicker, perhaps: the Human or the Spirit?

I see what you mean cantata. Dunno really...grass is always greener, I suppose? As you say, 'being' pure love and whatnot for eternity could get a little...blah.

If you think about it, places like this are just the ticket for a wee siesta. Like one of those really bad package holidays where everything goes wrong and all you can really do in the end is just sit and laugh about it. And then, when you do get home, its always the holiday you talk about most and have a good old chuckle recalling.

Just 'being' in a perpetual state of all-knowing and love might not just happen, either. Perhaps we/it are/is learning all the time through taking part in these little role-plays?

Ultimately, I suppose its just a case of "why not"? Were I infinite, I'd do it, over and over, just for kicks because as shitty as it can get, you have to admit, it's pretty fekkin marvellous.

Have been thinking about the physical element of it all, too. Imagine how frustrating it must be for 'someone' who is discarnate to not be able to experience all the things the earthly, physical realms, and others like it, have to offer.

Reason enough to break away from the whole for a bit, I reckon.

Similarly, imagine being able to create all this and not sit back and enjoy it? I mean, watching is one thing, but actually 'living it'...WOW!

Of course, the truth of it all is, 'you' never actually break away from the whole. That's just all part of the illusion in order to make it all a bit more 'real'. With a little diligence, you can tune into that source any time you like.

Well, I've talked myself into it. Where do I sign up? Oh, wait...

Ahh, Absy-Wabsy... then come the infinite questions from answers! (Which is the only real infinite I can ever find involved). See, I don't believe eternal love or happiness of being can get a bit "blah". Have you ever been happy or deeply in love? At what point did you say, "this is a bit boring; think I'll fek it all up to enjoy the adventure"? Never, I'll bet. You wanted more and more of the same!

And if spirit is bored and fancies a time in a really bad holiday camp, , because it wants to experience tough times... then why not communicate, "Ah! That's better! Let's wallow in this misery"?

And why do we have to "strive" to contact spirit? How far away from us is it? And has anyone ever spoken the same language as their Higher Selves or Guides?

It's sort of farcical - not just not making any sense but apparently set up to ensure that "learning" and "experiencing" are the very things denied.

It's all very, very odd indeed.

cantata wrote:
I don't understand what you mean, cant? Everything is learning and experiencing, to me. Positive and negative are wholly subjective, and that's the point. In order to appreciate that, you have to be able to perceive your 'self' as being separate from everything else (which I don't think 'it' is). Otherwise, it won't work - see?

I look at it like this. Imagine there is just you and a white room with nothing in it. You don't need to eat, sleep or drink, but you can if you want to. In fact, you can do anything you want, as long as its in the white room and you are on your own. Some people might think that would be marvellous...but for an eternity, indefinitely?

How would spirit know how wonderful it is to be 'spirit' without having a spell not being 'spirit' or having the opportunity to divide itself into two or more, perhaps all with opposing views, and actually have a conversation with itself.

You really need to get stoned to follow a lot of this. Where's sketti?

I don't really know about the fine details, or why we can't all just to chat to our dearly departed whenever we like (maybe we can?) but I reckon that's exactly as it should be. It's supposed to be a holiday, remember?

Hmmmm, I guess a lot of the answer rests on how each individual views existence in the "eternity". For me (and the bit I "know"), individuality is NOT lost (hence we can sometimes talk with our Departed Ones) and it is NOT sitting in a shiny white room all alone.

But, even if it was, even if the spirit decided to incarnate here for "experiences" outside that... hardly anyone is living a life of experience - certainly not the experiences that Life has to offer. Most, if they are honest with just themselves, would see their lives as a fairly boring, mundane loop with hardly any of Life's marvellous experiences. Most, if offered the real chance, would be living very different lives, based on real freedom of choice.

So, spirit is perhaps coming here and NOT giving itself the opportunity to experience beyond the mundane.....

(I'm about to argue myself right up my own botty here, Abs).

That's a little bit of what this place is for!

Fair points re people not doing everything they'd like. Having said that, I believe spirit to be 'happy' (obviously, I mean more 'present' because of than 'happy' here) with any and all experience. Not being used to even 'wanting' in 'it's natural state, other than to know what it isn't, it's all gravy.

Most people get angry when I say that, and it's certainly controversial. I'm not adept enough to argue that point further.



AND, we haven't even touched upon 'alternate' realities where you are in fact, doing everything you ever wanted to do!!

My brain hurts.

cantata wrote:
I think that if a metamorphosis or a simple word description for it would be a "changing" is a fact of nature then also why wouldn't there be a spiritual changing for physical lifeforms into a higher awareness of self or a spirit reality we change to
.Simple example for it would be a caterpillar to a butterfly.

And if you look at the way all physical objects are constructed, you realize we are really not a solid mass but instead made up of particles, that are so compressed we seem solid, but in reality we are a floating mass of particles, we just see things in a solid form because of our limited visual capabilities.

Everything is made up of these particles,atoms and molecules,makes us a spirit or energy form as we exists here, but less aware of it, because of the intense physical realm we are in at the moment, and at the end of one scale, as a caterpillar is in it's physical makeup before it becomes a butterfly.

.To increase your awareness of your spirit or how to realize we have one, and to understand it, is the great mystery of life

G'day.

The Sum Totality of all Life is All That Is.

For All That Is to experience itself, a contextual field is required, because in the absence of anything else, there is only the singularity, All That Is. Without anything else to relate to, then there is no relationship and hence no self-experience. For instance, in the absence of 'cold', there is no 'hot'. Without 'up' there is no 'down'.

In the absence of anything else, All That Is could only use itself as a contextual field, so it created within.


As can be seen within cell division, a contextual field was created by creating two individuated aspects within All That Is, and hence there were now three aspects in relationship to each other. For instance; past, present, future; here, there, that which surrounds here and there; mind, body, soul; thought, action, word; left, right, middle, etc, etc

Because All That Is had created a contextual field, then it could experience itself from within the relationship to the individuated aspects of itself.

ALL THOUGHTS, WORDS AND ACTIONS LEAD FROM YOUR BELIEF.

IF YOUR BELIEF IS OPPOSED TO ANYTHING, THEN YOU WILL BE UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND AND UNABLE TO SEE THAT WHICH YOU ARE OPPOSED TO.

YOUR BELIEF ALLOWS YOU TO UNDERSTAND AND SEE THAT WHICH YOU BELIEVE IN HERE AND NOW WITHIN THE PHYSICAL.

THEREFORE, BELIEVING WILL ALLOW YOU TO SEE, AND THAT WHICH YOU SEE IS A CONFIRMATION OF WHAT IT IS THAT YOU BELIEVE.

TO MASTER YOURSELF, OR EXPERIENCE SELF-MASTERY, YOU WILL REQUIRE A BELIEF THAT ENCOMPASSES ALL THAT IS.

THE BELIEF THAT ALLOWS YOU TO ENCOMPASS ALL THAT IS AND THEREFORE UNDERSTAND AND SEE ALL THAT IS, IS THE BELIEF THAT ALL IS POSSIBLE.

AS ALL THAT IS IS ALREADY HERE WITHIN ITS ENTIRETY, IT BECOMES YOUR CHOICE TO ACKNOWLEDGE ALL THAT IS AND ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE AN INDIVIDUATED ASPECT OF ALL THAT IS.

TO ACKNOWLEDGE IS TO RECOGNISE, OR RE-COGNISE, THAT IS, ONCE AGAIN EXPERIENCE KNOWING.

TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU ARE AN INDIVIDUATED ASPECT OF ALL THAT IS, IS TO ACCEPT YOUR TRUE SELF, THE INFINITE BEING THAT YOU TRULY ARE.

WHAT YOU ARE BEING, YOU EXPERIENCE, AND IT IS YOUR EXPERIENCE OF BEING YOURSELF THAT YOU ARE HERE FOR.

THEREFORE, WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO BE WILL DETERMINE YOUR EXPERIENCE, AND ONLY THROUGH YOUR EXPERIENCE CAN YOU EXPRESS SELF-MASTERY WITHIN THE PHYSICAL.

Self-mastery can be equated with the living (experiencing) of Who You Are in the 'ultimate' sense, not simply Who You Are choosing to Be now. It's your choices that re-creates yourself anew in each moment through your thoughts, actions and words, therefore, it's your choice as to the experience of self in each moment of now.

.. did i just join a cult?

My personal truth I came to is the whole of the new age teachings is a crapload of brainwashing lies that went a step up from mind control techniques of organized religion by adding the element of your own choice and need of suffering and humiliation. The only true concept in it is reincarnation, and I feel the doctrine was engineered to explain it in a convenient way to fool people into willfully reincarnating for eternity. All the absurd "learning" and "experiencing" BS is designed to keep you unaware and entrapped coming back to the hell hole indefinitely, and to make you accept what they do to you. Apparently, voluntary acceptance of whatever way they f*ck you is a major thing that matters for psychos and a final goal of theirs.

elfspirit wrote:
I do think there's a lot of truth to this, elfspirit. I think "religion" has made a massive comeback through the New Age Teachings - same head, different name. And just as with the old type religions, there are so many HUGE loopholes and theories that just don't make basic sense that they cannot be ignored.

Hence this question.

cantata wrote:
...my tuppenceworth...

'Spirit' is all that it knows it to be...

...imho... we as 'humans', have forgotten this (perhaps deliberately, with or without our consent)

...all is energy, pure and simple...ripples upon ripples upon ripples

Are we here to 'ascend' or remember or remind others?

...Either way, it's time to make waves upon waves...