Some HSBC customers have been prevented from withdrawing large amounts of cash because they could not provide evidence of why they wanted it, the BBC has learnt.

Listeners have told Radio 4's Money Box they were stopped from withdrawing amounts ranging from £5,000 to £10,000.

HSBC admitted it has not informed customers of the change in policy, which was implemented in November.

The bank says it has now changed its guidance to staff.

New rules
Stephen Cotton went to his local HSBC branch this month to withdraw £7,000 from his instant access savings account to pay back a loan from his mother.

A year before, he had withdrawn a larger sum in cash from HSBC without a problem.

But this time it was different, as he told Money Box: "When we presented them with the withdrawal slip, they declined to give us the money because we could not provide them with a satisfactory explanation for what the money was for. They wanted a letter from the person involved."

Mr Cotton says the staff refused to tell him how much he could have: "So I wrote out a few slips. I said, 'Can I have £5,000?' They said no. I said, 'Can I have £4,000?' They said no. And then I wrote one out for £3,000 and they said, 'OK, we'll give you that.' "

He asked if he could return later that day to withdraw another £3,000, but he was told he could not do the same thing twice in one day.

He wrote to complain to HSBC about the new rules and also that he had not been informed of any change.

The bank said it did not have to tell him. "As this was not a change to the Terms and Conditions of your bank account, we had no need to pre-notify customers of the change," HSBC wrote.

Frustrated customers
Mr Cotton cannot understand HSBC's attitude: "I've been banking in that bank for 28 years. They all know me in there. You shouldn't have to explain to your bank why you want that money. It's not theirs, it's yours."

Peter from Wiltshire, who wanted his surname withheld, had a similar experience.

He wanted to take out £10 000 cash from HSBC, some to pay to his sons and some to fund his long-haul travel plans.

Peter phoned up the day before to give HSBC notice and everything seemed to be fine.

The next day he got a call from his local branch asking him to pay his sons via a bank payment and to provide booking receipts for his holidays. Peter did not have any booking receipts to show.

The following day he spoke to HSBC again and this time, having examined his account, it said he could withdraw the £10,000.

Belinda Bell is another customer who was initially denied her cash, in her case to pay her builder. She told Money Box she had to provide the builder's quote.

Customer protection
HSBC has said that following customer feedback, it was changing its policy: "We ask our customers about the purpose of large cash withdrawals when they are unusual and out of keeping with the normal running of their account. Since last November, in some instances we may have also asked these customers to show us evidence of what the cash is required for."

"The reason being we have an obligation to protect our customers, and to minimise the opportunity for financial crime. However, following feedback, we are immediately updating guidance to our customer facing staff to reiterate that it is not mandatory for customers to provide documentary evidence for large cash withdrawals, and on its own, failure to show evidence is not a reason to refuse a withdrawal. We are writing to apologise to any customer who has been given incorrect information and inconvenienced."

Money Box asked other banks what their policy is on large cash withdrawals.

They all said they reserved the right to ask questions about large cash withdrawals.

But none of them said they would require evidence of what the money was being used for before paying out.

Douglas Carswell, the Conservative MP for Clacton, is alarmed by the new HSBC policy: "All these regulations which have been imposed on banks allow enormous interpretation. It basically infantilises the customer. In a sense your money becomes pocket money and the bank becomes your parent."

But Eric Leenders, head of retail at the British Bankers Association, said banks were sensible to ask questions of their customers: "I can understand it's frustrating for customers. But if you are making the occasional large cash withdrawal, the bank wants to make sure it's the right way to make the payment."

Meanwhile the media focuses on doleys and immigrants, doleys and immigrants, doleys and immigrants.

Bloody hell what has it got to do with them what you spend your money on? Show us your receipts? I would do my nut.

HSBC is my bank and I went in there in November to ask about using my debit card and credit card in Australia and the charges for withdrawals etc. as I was going there the next week. The teller said have you informed us you are going to overseas, I said no I didn't know I had to and to be honest that's my business; He said yes you must tell us each time or we may put a block on your cards as somebody may have stolen them. So I had to tell him my departure and arrival dates!!

I might go to the payroll dept on Monday and ask can I have cash in an envelope with my wage slip like in the good old days lol. Actually thinking about it they were the good old days with no exorbitant rip off bank charges...................hhmmmmmmm

Dear mod bastards facillitators,
can we merge this thread with the other one on the same subject please?

Dear mod bastards facillitators,
can we merge this thread with the other one on the same subject please?

knobmeup wrote:
What?

Where?

And ask them to provide receipts for all the shit they spent your money on while they 'banked' it.

Babs wrote:

unusual activity on your account will be flagged by fraud prevention .......that is there to protect you not upset you

Theft of card details is huge , so if you live in 2 toytown street Manchester and then your card is being to be used in America or Australia what would piss you of more

The bank asking ......is that you

Or the bank allowing potential fraudulent charges being debited to your account

It takes 2 minutes to phone your bank and say 'if going to be in australia for 3 weeks'

This thread has got me thinking.
Today the Lloyds 'group' is on the news because their cashlines and debit cards were not working over the week end. So, yet again their customers could not pay for stuff. This keeps happening on a fairly regular basis now to different banking groups.

The other day I was over on ATS who also have a thread on this HSBC cash withdrawals business. What struck me was that almost every poster were saying how they withdraw all their earnings, only leaving what they have to for DD's. Some are saying how they have home safes to keep cash. A couple of others how they put their spare cash in a bank deposit box......all sorts of different ideas basically how they make sure they hold the hard cash....not the bank.

I began thinking if more and more people are doing this, not just in this country, but world wide, and lets face it a lot of people are not going to talk about holding hard cash instead of leaving it in the bank......I am beginning to wonder if the banks do have a shortage of hard cash.

I know that some of you might think that if people are doing this on a pay cheque basis, it's only a drop in the ocean. But if most of this 'money' are just computer numbers (fiat), then the actual hard cash that is available is geting less and less in the banking system.

Almost everybody I know, who are living on limited incomes, like myself, have been withdrawing their 'surplus' or shopping money out of the banks as soon as their wages hit. Some are doing it, and this is the reason I do it, is because I don't want to be tracked as to how I chose to spend my money. For me, it also means in certain situations, I can do better deals for cash, which I believe is getting more prolific out there. It seems discount for cash is gaining momentum.

I know this is slightly OT, but it got me thinking 'outside the box' if you will. I'm not buying that it's all about security, money laundering prevention and computer glitches. I am really starting to think there is a surreptitious, grass roots bank run going on and the banks know it and are quietly panicking.



PS
www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2013/06...ing-money-transfers/

This time, the Federal Reserve has created a truly global problem. A big chunk of the trillions of dollars that it pumped into the financial system over the past several years has flowed into emerging markets. But now that the Fed has decided to begin "the taper", investors see it as a sign to pull the "hot money" out of emerging markets as rapidly as possible. This is causing currencies to collapse and interest rates to soar all over the planet. Argentina, Turkey, South Africa, Ukraine, Chile, Indonesia, Venezuela, India, Brazil, Taiwan and Malaysia are just some of the emerging markets that have been hit hard so far.

In fact, last week, emerging market currencies experienced the biggest decline that we have seen since the financial crisis of 2008. And all of this chaos in emerging markets is seriously spooking Wall Street as well. The Dow has fallen nearly 500 points over the last two trading sessions alone. If the Federal Reserve opts to taper even more in the coming days, this currency crisis could rapidly turn into a complete and total currency collapse.

A lot of Americans have always assumed that the U.S. dollar would be the first currency to collapse when the next great financial crisis happens. But actually, right now just the opposite is happening and it is causing chaos all over the planet.

Couldn’t happen, right?

It turns out, that’s exactly what is happening right now, as Chinese banks struggle to cope with nearly $23 trillion worth of potentially bad loans. Yes, that’s Trillion, with a “T.” The Chinese, it appears, have mimicked the exact set of circumstances that led to the 2008 crisis in America. Remember all of those empty cities and malls in China – they housed no people or shopping venues, yet cost billions of dollars to develop? It looks like all those bridges to nowhere are catching up with the Chinese. And the panic has begun, as evidenced by capital controls and restrictive withdrawal policies now being implemented by one of the largest banks in the world all across China.

We may not yet have official regulatory or bank policies for restricting cash withdrawals here in the USA, but just try to head to your local bank and withdraw $5,000 or $10,000 and see what happens. You will invariably be met with stares from bank employees and questions about your intentions and why you need that much cash.

We’ve already seen how fast they can lock down the entire banking system. It’ll only take a push of a button and everything you think you have in your personal bank account could be seized.

But, then again, as Ben Bernanke has said previously, there is no risk to the financial system.
Moreover, the FDIC has insured your money, so if something does go wrong with the American banking system, all of your losses are totally covered by the roughly $50 billion in FDIC reserves.
That should be plenty of money to handle the $9 trillion in US-based domestic customer deposits, plus the $300 trillion in derivatives bets made by the banks.

So, no need to worry, because the government’s got your back (and they would NEVER think of using your deposited funds to offset any bank losses).

But even though it is impossible to conceive that such a thing might happen, we recommend preparing for it just in case. We know FEMA will be there to provide emergency cash, food and recovery tents. But in the off chance the credit system locks up again, ATMs are limited to minimal withdrawals, and the banks do seize your money, you might want to have some food, supplies, gold, and reserve cash on hand.

We realize such a thing could never happen – not in the world’s most developed and richest economy. Ben Bernanke, Janet Yellen, government officials and TV pundits say it can’t. So, these extra supplies would be just for fun and entertainment – something to show friends and family when they come over so you can have a laugh about all these crazy Doomsday scenarios.