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TOPIC: Ukraine gas and guess who.

Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 11:11 #61

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and Justice for All wrote:
dubmeup wrote:
Wb ajfa :)

Given that nazis now occupy prominent positions in the new ukraine cabinet, given that they are in deed russophobes and given that the people of the crimea are predominantly of russiqn descent, putin would appear to have a fair case to say he is protecting them.
Though obv it's a lot more complicated than that.

Given that our grandparents fought against the nazis you'd think that the west would be saying well done putin, do you need a hand...
But they are doing the opposite...



Yeah, your grandparents fought the Nazis, but only when Hitler went off curriculum and started attacking the hand that propped him up and brought him to power, aka the western ruling elite headed by the UK monarchy and government at the time. The sole purpose for the creation of the third Reich was to bring down the USSR. That’s it, that was its purpose. It failed miserably, and the soviets won the war albeit paying the price with huge casualties.

Is not surprise at all that the usual suspects are using their buddies, the good old Nazis to poke at the Russian bear again. They use the same tired tactics over and over again. Sadly for these sorry maggots, Putin check-mated them, and now they’re crying in the media, essentially saying; “this, this is not on! It’s sooooo unfair!” :sulk:

It’s hilarious :killinme:

:killinme: Yes them big bad nazis in Government eh :roll: ....Just knew you cunts would be backing the Russians :killinme: :killinme:

Fantastic coverage from RT...think they had a good docu on about growing dates in the ME :rofl:

Remember better dead than red :D
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 11:17 #62

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Drug importation and prostitution will increase now the crooks are in power in Ukraine. :mad:
naivety attracts evil and evil attracts naivety
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 11:27 #63

@entrangermercenary1> Whatever dude, enjoy your non-red, US/EU/UK style ‘freedoms,’ don’t forget to wave and say hello to the NSA/GHQC on your webcam.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 12:44 #64

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Merc, this isn't about backing the russians any more than outrage at western exploits in syria are about backing assad.
You have a strong penchant for grabbing the wrong end of the stick innit :)
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 13:16 #65

dubmeup wrote:
Merc, this isn't about backing the russians any more than outrage at western exploits in syria are about backing assad.
You have a strong penchant for grabbing the wrong end of the stick innit :)

Oh, But I do support Russia (why? is it against forum rules or something...?), my reasons are several fold, but I’ll sumarize just by saying; that my reasoning rests on the idea of balance of power/s + check and balances. A bit like the American democracy is ‘supposed’ to work (not anymore, of course).
If you have only one super power telling everyone else what to do, you have tyranny, plain and simple, if you have Multi-Lateral World Super Powers, at the very least, us, little folks have some room to maneuver while the 'big guys' are busy measuring themselves to see who has the biggest dick.

Is not ideal, it certainly isn’t a solution, but it’s what we have to work with at the moment. A chance, is better that no chance at all.

As for Assad, I didn’t research him well enough to come to a conclusion, the fact that he agreed to call for elections is good enough for me, but! He’s a tad of busy at the moment, you know... with all the Al-CIAda, Sunny extremists, Saudi-backed jihadists running amok in his country that are terrorizing the shiite population, chopping peeps heads off and using them as footballs, and cutting hands off, and dog knows what else...

You know... The Good Guys; The Revels (TM) :roll:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 13:30 #66

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kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_Dail..._Of_Nuclear_War.html
Today former US Treasury official, Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, warned King World News that the world is now poised dangerously on the edge of a nuclear war. This is one of Dr. Roberts’ most important interviews in history because he is openly warning Washington to stop its aggressive actions against the Russians in their own backyard, or risk a nuclear exchange. Below is what Dr. Roberts had to say in this remarkable interview.

Roberts: “It may well be that we will end up in a confrontation with Russia. The Americans could not win on the ground there -- they can’t possibly that distant from their (military) bases take on the Russian Army in its own backyard. So the conflict would likely go nuclear....

“I would be worried about whether we can survive the incompetence and the stupidity of the arrogant and ignorant Obama regime. That’s what the world has to worry about at this moment.

Look, whenever you are stupid enough to take a direct strategic threat to a powerful military armed with nuclear weapons, which is what Russia is, you don’t have any sense. And so we have the world being driven by a government that hasn’t got any sense -- the United States government. You just don’t do that.

Nobody in their right mind would take this kind of risk. So, how does it work out? I think that Putin will try to settle it diplomatically. As I said, he (Putin) will hope that the EU comes to its senses and abandons Washington, rather than risk this type of confrontation -- that the EU will see that this regime that’s forming in Western Ukraine is not what they wanted.

The last thing the EU wants is a regime of ultra-nationalists. The EU is trying to stamp out nationalism and put all of the governments of the member states under the EU government in Brussels. So sovereignty and ultra-nationalism are the last things the EU wants to see.

I think Putin will also wait to see if the moderates get in control somehow. He’ll negotiate a reasonable agreement with them. If the ultra-wing prevails in the Western Ukraine, then he’ll be prepared to defend the Crimea and the eastern provinces and to reabsorb them into Russia.

They won’t be able to take on the Russian Army. So I think the danger does not come from Putin or Russia -- it comes from the fools in Washington. And if they (Washington) push this, which I suspect they will as part of their cover-up, then their anti-Putin rhetoric will rise, the lies will multiply, and they will force an issue rather than admit a mistake. And so this is a great risk the world faces -- it’s the risk of nuclear war.”
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 13:33 #67

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@Justice for all
Nice analogy to checks and balances.
So, essentially if we all just moved back to sovereign nation status as it used to be. We wouldn't have all this power bloc building and the resulting hegemony...NATO/EU comes to mind - which brings with it the inherent tendency towards totalitarianism.

I find it ironic that the Russians seem to be the credible defence against creeping World Govt - thats how it looks to me.
However, maybe It is naivety or wishful thinking and Russia is just playing its role for the dialectic controllers (as you said: It is still embedded in the world banking scam) and its all just a very cunning plan Baldrick.
@WUB - and you provide the evidence - thanks
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Last Edit: 03 Mar 2014 13:37 by Wise Haven.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 13:57 #68

Wise Haven wrote:
@Justice for all
Nice analogy to checks and balances.
So, essentially if we all just moved back to sovereign nation status as it used to be. We wouldn't have all this power bloc building and the resulting hegemony...NATO/EU comes to mind - which brings with it the inherent tendency towards totalitarianism.

I find it ironic that the Russians seem to be the credible defence against creeping World Govt - thats how it looks to me.
However, maybe It is naivety or wishful thinking and Russia is just playing its role for the dialectic controllers (as you said: It is still embedded in the world banking scam) and its all just a very cunning plan Baldrick.
@WUB - and you provide the evidence - thanks

I personally don’t find it ironic at all. As far as I’m concerned - since I can only speak for myself here - the Russians and/or Soviets < of a by now, by-gone era, let‘s not forget - while no saints, I don’t recall them going on a wild murderous rampage across the entire world, from South America, to Asia, to Africa and beyond.
Let’s start with the creation of the Brzezinski+CIA Al-Qaeda terror cell to fight against the Soviets in the Afghan war to cripple and tire the USSR, and Vietnam. Let’s take it from there, all the way up to date: Lybia + Syria + Ukraine + Haiti + Venezuela, (etc) and let’s do an unbiased body count, and let’s, for once and for all see who’s the REAL mass murderer here.

Shall we?
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 14:15 #69

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As you say, the Russians are no saints - and a point in their favour is they stuck to murdering their own (and lets not forget the UKraine in that body count) But a world domination jolly like this "Bringin Democracy to the World" cliques of Western "Democracies" we have seen for several decades now is somewhat hippocritical to say the least. But lets not forget the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact which the Nazis and Stalin decided to carve up their unsuspecting neighbours into spheres of influence. Are we seeing a modern day version of that being played out now?

Ultimately it seems to me that both blocs - West and East - are taking a time share approach to carving up the world and creating regionalism (a la Agenda 21) and Putin's current role seems to be that of the notional "good guy"

I'm also keeping one eye on China - they haven't played their hand yet and I suspect they have a couple of trump cards they have been keeping close to their chests and just waiting for the right time to scoop the pot.
My Rights End Where Yours Begin so give me space FFS
Last Edit: 03 Mar 2014 14:17 by Wise Haven.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 14:19 #70

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Can't argue with JforA....the figures/geopolitics are self evident.
As to China....think it was on RT....China has come out supporting Russia....I'll see if I can find it....
:jane:
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the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 14:23 #71

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A bit of humour to illustrate my poins above:

My Rights End Where Yours Begin so give me space FFS
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 14:26 #72

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angelchemuel wrote:
Can't argue with JforA....the figures/geopolitics are self evident.
As to China....think it was on RT....China has come out supporting Russia....I'll see if I can find it....
:jane:

Yep - you're right Angel - read an article on that today (can't locate it at the mo)
Personally, I think China is hedging its bets at the moment and historically the Soviets and Chinese have had their spats in the past.
My Rights End Where Yours Begin so give me space FFS
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 14:28 #73

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Hehe...found it...it was JforA that posted it her/himself over on the Venezuela thread...
sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/today-s-news/942...html?start=20#190784

Post#33

:jane:

PS....we also need to keep in mind India....mhmmm
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Last Edit: 03 Mar 2014 14:29 by angelchemuel.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 14:30 #74

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angelchemuel wrote:
Can't argue with JforA....the figures/geopolitics are self evident.
As to China....think it was on RT....China has come out supporting Russia....I'll see if I can find it....
:jane:
news.sky.com/story/1219922/russia-and-ch...reement-over-ukraine
Russia has said China is largely "in agreement" over Ukraine, after other world powers condemned Moscow for sending troops into the country.

Hundreds of Russian soldiers have surrounded a military base in Crimea, preventing Ukrainian soldiers from going in or out.

The convoy blockading the site, near the Crimean capital Simferopol, includes at least 17 military vehicles.
There are loads of other links, but China will always support Russia and vice-versa unless it's absolutely impossible.
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 14:34 #75

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Haha - J for All on the ball. Thats what I had read too.

India - China has been building up quite a strong relationship there, behind the scenes, for quite a while. I have a vague remembering of quite large arms sales to India - including military aircraft.

And lets not forget Pakistan which has been flavour of the month with the West's ambitions in the area. Which is, of course, a long term enemy of India. So what I see is polarisation going on in the region with China providing a three way tug of allegiances.
My Rights End Where Yours Begin so give me space FFS
Last Edit: 03 Mar 2014 14:37 by Wise Haven.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 14:43 #76

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Mhmmm, correctamundo....something about oil from Iran too, thus India has broken from the petrodollar.

Anyways.....I think people generally are sick of the US making themselves the world police. And with things so bad on the ground both back there and here in the UK, it's no wonder Boris ordered water cannons and the met have requested them. We're in for a 'hot' summer me thinks. Also, all people can see is how Putin stepped in as the 'diplomat' and statesman he is proving himself to be over the Syria threat. He's gone straight to his parliament to ask 'the people' for permission......that 'looks' like democracy.....which gives him loads of brownie point from the people both at home and overseas....and he damn well knows it.......the man plays chess exceedingly well...so brains and brawn as far as I can see........reminds me of Frankie Goes To Hollywoods When two Tribes.....
:jane:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 14:53 #77

Wise Haven wrote:
As you say, the Russians are no saints - and a point in their favour is they stuck to murdering their own (and lets not forget the UKraine in that body count) [...] .

What do you mean? The Muslim tartars (?)... aka; Turkish + aka; Muslims from the Otto expansionist empire? Are we really gonna have to go THAT far back? Are we having an adult discussion here or we’re just mucking about!? Just sayin’... dude.
Unless of course you meant the West-Ukrainian body count from THEM siding up with the Nazis and then those pesky Soviets getting a little ticked off at them, ended up with their asses handed to them... either way. How relevant is this? To use the ‘west’ lingo; were/are they ‘combatants’ or not?, that’s MY point.

Just for the record when I mean mass massacre, I mean, for example drones obliterating Pakistani wedding parties and the like, or what Americans-Cowards&Co, like to call: collateral damage*. You know? Agent Orange? Depleted Uranium? Shooting unarmed people in vans with kids for no reason... Ironically :roll: [not] that Apache vid was actually named: *Collateral Damage, and that’s precisely what landed Assange with a permanent residence at the Ecuador embassy. You know... that type of stuff..

^ That’s what I mean by: black and white mass murder in my book.
.
Wise Haven wrote:
[...] Ultimately it seems to me that both blocs - West and East - are taking a time share approach to carving up the world and creating regionalism (a la Agenda 21) and Putin's current role seems to be that of the notional "good guy" [...] .

Good old, always relevant agenda 21! Bought to you by the axis of ‘clownship’, purveyors of fear, the likes of; Alex Jone, Jeff Rense, David -let me keep all your PVN donations nice and safe in my personal bank account - Icke.

Sure.
.
Wise Haven wrote:
[...] I'm also keeping one eye on China - they haven't played their hand yet and I suspect they have a couple of trump cards they have been keeping close to their chests and just waiting for the right time to scoop the pot.

They already kind of ‘played their hand‘, you’re just not paying close enough attention.
Last Edit: 03 Mar 2014 18:33 by and Justice for All. Reason: I originally said: “east” when I actually meant: ‘west’-Ukraine
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 14:57 #78

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Nationalism as such is meant to be about separatism and independence.

Nazism on the other hand is about a command economy, racism, warfare, total obedience etc etc. They usually get into power by pretending to be about nationalism which is something that the Swiss are a better example of than anyone else from what I can see.

From what I can infer, these nazis in the Ukraine are more interested in Russia than in the EU and are somehow trying to twist it into being about race (specifically some kind of white russian ethno thing).

Russia and the EU/US are both fighting over the Ukraine, Russia probably sees it being about its own survival as the EU encroaches on its borders and the EU see it as being about gas and the US see it as being about NATO influence.

The Ukranian people stand to suffer the most as they have no visible political party of genuine libertarian ethos (just like us) instead they have these pretenders such as russian interest groups, nazis and EU interest groups and it is these groups who have the financial and muscle clout.

I see parallels with Scotland for example. They have just the SNP (pro-EU) in 'opposition' to interests that lie in London.
The whole situation is farcical.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 14:57 #79

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angelchemuel wrote:
Mhmmm, correctamundo....something about oil from Iran too, thus India has broken from the petrodollar.

Anyways.....I think people generally are sick of the US making themselves the world police. And with things so bad on the ground both back there and here in the UK, it's no wonder Boris ordered water cannons and the met have requested them. We're in for a 'hot' summer me thinks. Also, all people can see is how Putin stepped in as the 'diplomat' and statesman he is proving himself to be over the Syria threat. He's gone straight to his parliament to ask 'the people' for permission......that 'looks' like democracy.....which gives him loads of brownie point from the people both at home and overseas....and he damn well knows it.......the man plays chess exceedingly well...so brains and brawn as far as I can see........reminds me of Frankie Goes To Hollywoods When two Tribes.....
:jane:
Spot on about the petro dollar. Libya was out of the petro dollar and would take gold or commodities in payment for its oil. One of its main customers was India which would buy its oil with grain/rice? We know what happened to Libya - and I'm sure India made no friends in the West by trading with Libya. Now India seems to being doing the same with Iran - which we all know is one of, if not the next main target to be brought into world financial system.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 15:03 #80

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@ Andy H

Nationalism has been made into a dirty word by falaciously associating and equating it to the perpetual bogey man, National Socialism.
Which if people cared to look, they would realize was pretty much the same Corporatism we see emerging in western "Democracies".

Nothing more than Newpeak - the re-framing and re-defining of words to confuse and obfuscate.

True Nationalism and sovereignty can be a quite benign description of a peaceful, mutually beneficial trading orthodoxy.
My Rights End Where Yours Begin so give me space FFS
Last Edit: 03 Mar 2014 15:06 by Wise Haven.
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