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TOPIC: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid?

Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 14:50 #141

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dubmeup wrote:
Coco wrote:
Question from the cheap seats AKA average American area:

I hear time and time again that this guy was:

1. Jeopardizing our boys' safety overseas by exposing secret documents and thus an enemy.

2. Spreading falsehoods and thus an enemy.

3. Proven time and time again to be spreading outright lies thus jeopardizing our boys over seas.

4. Nobody likes the guy which is why he has finally found asylum in some crap, third world, anti-American dump with no hot water and bacteria galore, rife and abundant.

Still, I want to know why this guy keeps popping up in the news so I can judge for myself.

Thank you.

P.S. I'm not kidding. I've only heard negative about this guy. Why? I wish to learn to make my own judgement. There's been too much buzz about him to ignore!

Sincerely,

An American from the cheap seats.

Good question Coco, to which I will offer one word in response.
Propaganda.

A lot of people who promote propaganda have seen little of anything outside of Fox news.
Unfortunately they are the majority.

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Keep shoot'n, keep shoot'n...



Of course thats just a lie and none of it ever happened.
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 14:50 #142

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andyh wrote:
It didn't seem to stop them with JFK ;)

We are not the people of 1963
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 14:57 #143

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Could anybody actually hear what was said?
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 15:01 #144

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mikey mikey wrote:
andyh wrote:
It didn't seem to stop them with JFK ;)

We are not the people of 1963

lol no, we are the people of 2012.

The only big difference in my book is the year though :)
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 15:03 #145

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Gilly wrote:
Could anybody actually hear what was said?

Yeah it was clear as a bell on RT streaming.

He basically thanked everyone for their vigil, thanked the other countries govts involved in upholding political asylum etc and said that Bradley Manning should be released.
There'll be a recording somewhere but I bet the BBC don't show the speech in full.
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 15:06 #146

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Gilly wrote:
Could anybody actually hear what was said?


The web is now awash with wingnuts filling up the comments section on the comments section on the Guardian along with a lot of others.
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Last Edit: 19 Aug 2012 15:43 by mikey mikey.
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 15:11 #147

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andyh wrote:
There'll be a recording somewhere but I bet the BBC don't show the speech in full.
Shockingly, I watched the whole speech live on the BBC :O
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 15:12 #148

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dubmeup wrote:
andyh wrote:
There'll be a recording somewhere but I bet the BBC don't show the speech in full.
Shockingly, I watched the whole speech live on the BBC :O

That is a shock, lol :)
Its normally a cut out piece and then a talking head or two.
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 15:15 #149

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LOL!!
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 17:41 #150

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Well the MSM has just gone off the deep end in its utter falsehoods and selective filming.
Even the Guardian's comments section is awash with wingnuts submitting comments which totally repeat what have been demonstrated to be blatant falsehoods

Ridiculous astroturfing.

While Latin America is galvanised, there is another mustering: that of the Authoritarian Right and the so-called Centre and Centre Left.

The type of intellectuals that Chomsky often berates: those that pose as having an interest in Human Rights but are quick to tow the party line when told to get into line.

I also suspect that elsewhere on other forums we are seeing a pseudo "skepticism" of wikileaks. One that is fuled by closet conservatives like Infowars. Not every or even most skeptic, but certainly the ones that do everything in their pwer to run the discussion off the boards.
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 17:51 #151

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I ventured into the HYS at the BBC for a bit and yes, some of the things being said there were ridiculous. The word rape was being thrown about like it was going out of fashion.....
There were plenty of us there giving our views though and overall by the time I left it was still a fairly balanced HYS. I'm amazed the parroters of falsehoods were being allowed to do so though.


Oh wait........hang on a mo.........it was the BBC...


EDIT: I've just had a look at the editor's picks :facepalm:
Last Edit: 19 Aug 2012 17:53 by dubs.
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 18:00 #152

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dubmeup wrote:
I ventured into the HYS at the BBC for a bit and yes, some of the things being said there were ridiculous. The word rape was being thrown about like it was going out of fashion.....
There were plenty of us there giving our views though and overall by the time I left it was still a fairly balanced HYS. I'm amazed the parroters of falsehoods were being allowed to do so though.
Oh wait........hang on a mo.........it was the BBC...
EDIT: I've just had a look at the editor's picks :facepalm:
However if you sort the comments by highest rated the majority clearly see through the bullshit and support Assange.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19310335#dna-comments
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 18:00 #153

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I returned to the UK today to be astonished by private confirmation from within the FCO that the UK government has indeed decided – after immense pressure from the Obama administration – to enter the Ecuadorean Embassy and seize Julian Assange.

Craig Murray on his blog that was yet another to suffer a DDOS attack in these days

www.craigmurray.org.uk/
Could have brought this sooner but much like RT and wikileaks themselves, he got taken offline by "anti-leaks"
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Last Edit: 19 Aug 2012 18:02 by mikey mikey.
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 18:09 #154

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feather wrote:
However if you sort the comments by highest rated the majority clearly see through the bullshit and support Assange.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19310335#dna-comments
t

Now feather....Are you implying that the editor doesn't necessarily chose posts that represent public opinion????
Surely that wouldn't happen at the BBC :conf: Our independent and certainly not propaganda machine of the British State Broadcaster :conf:
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 18:12 #155

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dubmeup wrote:
feather wrote:
However if you sort the comments by highest rated the majority clearly see through the bullshit and support Assange.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19310335#dna-comments
t

Now feather....Are you implying that the editor doesn't necessarily chose posts that represent public opinion????
Surely that wouldn't happen at the BBC :conf: Our independent and certainly not propaganda machine of the British State Broadcaster :conf:
Would I dare suggest such a thing? :P
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 18:19 #156

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dubmeup wrote:
Now feather....Are you implying that the editor doesn't necessarily chose posts that represent public opinion????
Surely that wouldn't happen at the BBC :conf: Our independent and certainly not propaganda machine of the British State Broadcaster :conf:

It always has been but today it resembled more FOX News with heavily edited footage (i had a live skype feed), some deliberate falsehoods that they had previously debunked, a lot of "opinion" from reporting and a basic repition of the party line

1) no escape for assange
2) Ecuador are crooked
3) rape
4) UK never threatened nuffink and nobbo' ee
5) he has to give up sometimes
6) ye c'mon, it's not like anbbo'eez gonn loik 'urt 'im innit?
7) but we can go in an ge''im so he better 'urry up
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Last Edit: 19 Aug 2012 18:19 by mikey mikey.
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 22:03 #157

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I've just posted this at UKplod so may as well post it here too:

Assange Extradition Fact Sheet


15 Overlooked Facts About the Assange Extradition Case




1) Julian Assange is not charged with anything in Sweden or any other country.

[Source: @wikileaks]



2) Julian Assange did not flee Sweden to avoid questioning. He was given permission to leave the country on the 15th September 2010, after remaining 5 weeks in Sweden for the purpose of answering the allegations made against him.

[Source: Undue delay for Julian Assange’s interrogation]



3) The case against Julian Assange was initially dropped, and deemed so weak it could not warrant investigation. After the intervention of a Swedish politician close to American diplomats, it was revived by a different prosecutor. [Source: Why is Julian Assange in jail?]



4) In all instances, the 2 plaintiffs consented to sexual intercourse, which they did not take the initiative to stop: they never expressed non-consent and afterwards declared to not have felt threatened by Julian Assange. [Sources: Swedish Police Report and The offences described in the EAW are not extradition offences]



5) A condom submitted as evidence by complainant AA, who claimed it had been deliberately torn by Julian Assange during sexual intercourse, contains no chromosomal DNA from either the complainant or Julian. [Source: Overlooked evidence in the Assange trial]



6) Text messages exchanged between complainants and their friends contradict the factual allegations in the European Arrest Warrant (EAW) issued for Julian Assange and cast doubt on the allegations.

[Source: Brief to Canberra Meeting of MPs]



7) After the date of the alleged sexual misconduct: a) Complainant AA created then deleted evidence (tweets) indicating she was enjoying Julian Assange’s company; b) AA went as far as suggesting one of her friends (Witness C) should be intimate with Julian as well.

[Sources: AA: The Twitter Trail, Göran Rudling Witness Statement and Police Statement of Witness C]



8) The law firm hired in the Assange investigation is ran by Claes Borgström (politician and legal representative for both plaintiffs) and by former minister Thomas Bodström. Both are members of the Social Democrat Party in Sweden. Bodström is a friend of police interrogator Irmeli Krans, who interrogated complainant SW. [Source: Irmeli Krans: The Facebook Trail]



9) Police interrogator Irmeli Krans is, in turn, friends with the other plaintiff, complainant AA, with whom she has political ties (Social Democrat Party). Krans also breached protocol by commenting negatively about Julian Assange on social media. [Source: Irmeli Krans: The Facebook Trail]



10) Swedish prosecutor, Marianne Ny, refused to provide Julian Assange or his lawyers with information on the allegations against him in writing. This violates the Swedish Code of Procedure (RB 23:18) and the European Convention of Human Rights (article 5), and the EU Fundamental Charter on Human Rights.

Prosecution also refused all voluntary offers for cooperation that fit under Mutual Legal Assistance protocol, such as making use of alternative methods to interview Julian Assange.

[Sources: Fair Trial for Julian Assange? and Abuse of Process: Disproportionate use of EAW and INTERPOL Red Notice]



11) Both the EAW and the Interpol red notice were issued for Julian by Sweden just before WikiLeaks began to publish Cablegate. [Source: Brief to Canberra Meeting of MPs]



12) The allegations against Julian Assange do not constitute an offense in Australia or in the UK. [Source: The offences described in the EAW are not extradition offences]



13) If extradited to Sweden: still without charge, Julian Assange would be held incommunicado and placed under solitary confinement. Pre-trial detention would last for an indefinite period. Trial in Sweden would be held in secret. [Source: Fair Trial for Julian Assange?]



14) The Swedish legal system features lay judges who are appointed because of their political affiliations. They have no formal legal training. [Source: Lay Judges]



15) Sweden has the highest per capita rate of cases brought to the European Court of Human Rights relating to article 6.1 (right to a fair trial). [Source: Fair Trial for Julian Assange?]





Conclusion and References


Julian Assange is wanted in Sweden for questioning. According to the law, Julian is not required to be present in the country for the interview to take place. It could instead be conducted using alternative methods, such as a simple phonecall.
On the 13th July 2011, during an extradition appeal hearing, Judges on the case asked why this did not happen:

”Why go through all of this if Mr. Assange offered to be interviewed?”
”Why does judicial corporation not entail… sensible steps to get on with it?”
[Source: 2011-07-13 WikiLeaks Notes]


Prosecution, however, continuously refuses to interview Julian in the UK, insisting he must be extradited to Sweden for interrogation. For this purpose an European Arrest Warrant was issued by Sweden, in disregard for one of its basic restrictions: an EAW is for prosecution purposes only.

The extradition to Sweden insisted upon by prosecution would facilitate subsequent extradition to the US, as Sweden never once denied a US extradition request since 2000. Therefore, the Swedish case against Julian Assange cannot be dissociated from the ongoing US Grand Jury investigation on WikiLeaks. As such, it is extremely important any opinion formed on this specific subject be based on facts.
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 22:32 #158

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Just thought I'd chuck in my tupence worth on this situation.

I am totally disgusted at the actions & attitude of the UK guv on this matter. It's an obvious set up because of Julian's revelations.
Bullshit suspicions being touted as charges. Disgraceful publications & blatant slander against Julian in almost all press outlets.
A dangerous disregard for diplomatic respect from the UK, which could prove to be a major mistake for the protection of ordinary people.
Not that they'll give a shit about that.

THIS SITUATION IS A DISGRACE :barfonu:
The Sun is always shining
Rewind - Lifeforms, FSOL
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 22:52 #159

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dubmeup wrote:
I've just posted this at UKplod so may as well post it here too:

Assange Extradition Fact Sheet


15 Overlooked Facts About the Assange Extradition Case




1) Julian Assange is not charged with anything in Sweden or any other country.

[Source: @wikileaks]



2) Julian Assange did not flee Sweden to avoid questioning. He was given permission to leave the country on the 15th September 2010, after remaining 5 weeks in Sweden for the purpose of answering the allegations made against him.

[Source: Undue delay for Julian Assange’s interrogation]



3) The case against Julian Assange was initially dropped, and deemed so weak it could not warrant investigation. After the intervention of a Swedish politician close to American diplomats, it was revived by a different prosecutor. [Source: Why is Julian Assange in jail?]



4) In all instances, the 2 plaintiffs consented to sexual intercourse, which they did not take the initiative to stop: they never expressed non-consent and afterwards declared to not have felt threatened by Julian Assange. [Sources: Swedish Police Report and The offences described in the EAW are not extradition offences]



5) A condom submitted as evidence by complainant AA, who claimed it had been deliberately torn by Julian Assange during sexual intercourse, contains no chromosomal DNA from either the complainant or Julian. [Source: Overlooked evidence in the Assange trial]



6) Text messages exchanged between complainants and their friends contradict the factual allegations in the European Arrest Warrant (EAW) issued for Julian Assange and cast doubt on the allegations.

[Source: Brief to Canberra Meeting of MPs]



7) After the date of the alleged sexual misconduct: a) Complainant AA created then deleted evidence (tweets) indicating she was enjoying Julian Assange’s company; b) AA went as far as suggesting one of her friends (Witness C) should be intimate with Julian as well.

[Sources: AA: The Twitter Trail, Göran Rudling Witness Statement and Police Statement of Witness C]



8) The law firm hired in the Assange investigation is ran by Claes Borgström (politician and legal representative for both plaintiffs) and by former minister Thomas Bodström. Both are members of the Social Democrat Party in Sweden. Bodström is a friend of police interrogator Irmeli Krans, who interrogated complainant SW. [Source: Irmeli Krans: The Facebook Trail]



9) Police interrogator Irmeli Krans is, in turn, friends with the other plaintiff, complainant AA, with whom she has political ties (Social Democrat Party). Krans also breached protocol by commenting negatively about Julian Assange on social media. [Source: Irmeli Krans: The Facebook Trail]



10) Swedish prosecutor, Marianne Ny, refused to provide Julian Assange or his lawyers with information on the allegations against him in writing. This violates the Swedish Code of Procedure (RB 23:18) and the European Convention of Human Rights (article 5), and the EU Fundamental Charter on Human Rights.

Prosecution also refused all voluntary offers for cooperation that fit under Mutual Legal Assistance protocol, such as making use of alternative methods to interview Julian Assange.

[Sources: Fair Trial for Julian Assange? and Abuse of Process: Disproportionate use of EAW and INTERPOL Red Notice]



11) Both the EAW and the Interpol red notice were issued for Julian by Sweden just before WikiLeaks began to publish Cablegate. [Source: Brief to Canberra Meeting of MPs]



12) The allegations against Julian Assange do not constitute an offense in Australia or in the UK. [Source: The offences described in the EAW are not extradition offences]



13) If extradited to Sweden: still without charge, Julian Assange would be held incommunicado and placed under solitary confinement. Pre-trial detention would last for an indefinite period. Trial in Sweden would be held in secret. [Source: Fair Trial for Julian Assange?]



14) The Swedish legal system features lay judges who are appointed because of their political affiliations. They have no formal legal training. [Source: Lay Judges]



15) Sweden has the highest per capita rate of cases brought to the European Court of Human Rights relating to article 6.1 (right to a fair trial). [Source: Fair Trial for Julian Assange?]





Conclusion and References


Julian Assange is wanted in Sweden for questioning. According to the law, Julian is not required to be present in the country for the interview to take place. It could instead be conducted using alternative methods, such as a simple phonecall.
On the 13th July 2011, during an extradition appeal hearing, Judges on the case asked why this did not happen:

”Why go through all of this if Mr. Assange offered to be interviewed?”
”Why does judicial corporation not entail… sensible steps to get on with it?”
[Source: 2011-07-13 WikiLeaks Notes]


Prosecution, however, continuously refuses to interview Julian in the UK, insisting he must be extradited to Sweden for interrogation. For this purpose an European Arrest Warrant was issued by Sweden, in disregard for one of its basic restrictions: an EAW is for prosecution purposes only.

The extradition to Sweden insisted upon by prosecution would facilitate subsequent extradition to the US, as Sweden never once denied a US extradition request since 2000. Therefore, the Swedish case against Julian Assange cannot be dissociated from the ongoing US Grand Jury investigation on WikiLeaks. As such, it is extremely important any opinion formed on this specific subject be based on facts.

outstanding post

I applaud you

:clap:
thank you St Jude for favours granted
Last Edit: 19 Aug 2012 22:53 by mikey mikey.
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Re: Julian Assange Ecuadorian embassy raid? 19 Aug 2012 22:55 #160

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