MrsGood wrote:
It's just as well it was this way around given that clouds biting action is somewhat on hold for the time being... poor fucker that he is

psketti wrote:
It dawned on me too pesky While i've still got my teeth i may as well put them to good use though. Shame about BC, but the pogue look is in vogue with smak heads Not

quietgirl wrote: Thank you Mandy.......I started this thread on another forum & all the responces were more like yours.....

where as here on the SZ I got a completly opposite response mostly........

I'm skeptical dreadnaught. You mentioned that BPD can be "cured". Let me put it this way, Ms dub has "cured" me of having a certain personality trait which led me to leave oily finger prints on door handles. She did it with a combination of nagging, threats and violence over a period of time. We all build up patterns of behavior, some of which aren't constructive to say the least. We can "cure" them but does this mean we had a medical condition? I'm not so sure. It's undeniable that more and more behavioral patterns are being labelled as conditions whereas I am inclined to think they are more akin to programs.

What was the cure for the people you referred to?

Do these people even really need to be cured? These personality disorders aren't something that you can do a blood test for or anything, they are just an arbitrary collection of behaviours that someone has decided are undesirable. Do they even exist, or did they exist before someone invented them?

Many of the behaviours are actually undesirable, but I don't understand the need to pathologise people's shortcomings. It goes on a lot these days and as far as I can see, most people are just muddling along through life trying to do the best they can - and they'll invariably cock stuff up in the process.

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
G'day LesleyPumpshaft.

You are thinking for yourself there gorgeous ... the psychiatric industry and those pushing the psychiatric wheelbarrow won't like that at all.

is it a coincidence that there were none of these 'mental disorders' prior to the psychiatric industry labeling them as such ?

They were simply personal characteristics, emotional states, etc. Now they are labeled by a multi-billion dollar industry that cannot maintain the flow of money without having such labels and prescription drugs to 'treat' them.

Is this merely a coincidence ?

I AM ALL I AM wrote: Another explanation might be that ignorance and lack of awareness about mental health, psychiatric treatments and the existence of mental illness without diagnosis, an ill equipped social worker and school staff, or parent in many cases made things much worse for the sufferers of these illnesses giving rise to perpetual increases of occurrence and normalisation of many of the symptoms and effects.

Perhaps undefined, unconscious characteristics, reactive, instinctive emotional states, beating children was very normal until the 90's I got beat a fair few times through the 90's.

Another explanation might be connected to the historical conditions we're coming out of, a century of War, families torn apart, lives ruined and forever tainted by the experience of war, what about the masses of communities that are unemployed since Thatcher, emasculated, robbed of a living, driven to drinking and bitterness.

It's not completely one thing or the other, I think people overplay the significance of some malign influence over the board of psychiatry, maybe mental illness is just better understood (not well enough obv hence our placebo treatment techniques) and more prevalent, maybe our awareness of psyche has yet to filter out to the collective consciousness, but abuse within families is decreasing imo and the ability to deal with abuse within families, detect the signs etc is improving.

i am of the belief that there is a difference between mental illness and mental health problems - mental illness is caused by something that can be physically seen via brain scans and mental health problems are indicated by behavioural and emotional differences and are most often the result of environmental factors.

Like crime, mental health problems reflect societal views of 'normality' and what is considered 'normal' or 'criminal' changes as society changes - whether this change is driven by pharma, big business or some other sort of unseen 'force' does not change the very real distress that those living with mental health problems suffer on a day to day basis.

I was diagnosed as borderline personality disorder in my teens - my behaviour was incredibly damaging to myself and others around me - I took unbelievable risks, was dependent on drugs and alcohol, made several suicide attempts, self harmed, slept around spent days and days unable to get out of bed and could not function in any meaningful way. I am convinced that all of these issues was caused by the abuse I lived through and spiralled out of control as my life became more and more disorganised. Pills, therapy etc didnt help me much as they did not address or stop the shit my life was in. The change for me came when the life changes happened - when I regained some control and when my abuser was sent to prison I finally felt safe and had a form of closure so could begin to rebuild my life. I am convinced that had he been properly dealt with from the beginning the depths to which I sank could have been prevented.

I am convinced that for a lot of people for whom mental distress is an everyday occurrence a lot more could be done to change circumstances rather then just medicating the problem - Every day I deal with people who's mental health problems are exacerbated by the actions of creditors - the constant harassment and threats and demands for money my clients just dont have leads to feelings of being out of control and hopelessness often leading to clinical depression and 'abnormal' behaviours - medicating these people does fuck all to help address the actual environmental problems that helped to create the mess in the first place.

Meds can help to cope with day to day life but they should never be the be all and end all of treatment.

There is no box ticking system that is ever going to really help people as we are all different and have differing environmental stresses to deal with - however at least the system to some extent does recognise that people are struggling to cope with life as imposed through society - its just a shame that we choose to medicate the problem rather then address the problem itself - which is us imho.

quietgirl wrote:
Please read Mandy's post again....On the other forums The ONLY people who GOT IT were people who had family members who had BPD....or friends who people had known for a number of years......
I never said BPD could be treated with drugs....I don't actualy know what the treatment/cure is.....
IMO too many posts on this thread are by people who don't know what they are talking about.....just saying.....

It's fair enough to have that opinion dread but I think in this case your suspicions are awry. If you have a browse through past threads you'll see that many here are pretty well up on the subject of mental health, for many reasons.
BPD just seems one of those diagnoses that is dubious to me. That is not to belittle the experience of those who get the diagnosis or their families. Those experiences I don't doubt.

On the cure thing, you said it can be cured, I asked how...that's all. I for one aint suggesting you said it can be cured with drugs.

Idk, I just don't really like the term 'personality disorder' it's very negative and carries a bit of a stigma.

Listen, I am in agreement that our society is overmedicated and it is obvious that the public at large is being led to believe that they should not be feeling bad.... so here.... take a pill.

But, I have seen cases where medication worked. One was at a restaurant where I worked. The Executive Chef had BPD. His wife would sometimes come in the office and help me and she is the one who told me that. On some days Chef would come to work and spend 50% of his time trying to sabotage everyone else. It was unbelievable the thought and effort that he would put into it. He would also sabotage the restaurant.

One of my duties was to collect all the customer comment cards and make reports for the owner. There was a period of time when people were finding stuff in their food. I talked to the owner about it and told him what I thought. The owner told Chef and wife that they had worked hard and deserved a vacation and he actually paid for it. During those two weeks all was well. When they returned it started up again.

Sometimes his behaviour was so extreme, I think that the diners might have thought it was a show because we were in a tourist area. On his bad days, I really had to cover my track and double/triple check everything because of his sabotaging behaviors.

I always knew the minute that he came into work what the day would be like because you could see it in his eyes. His wife told me that on his good days, the days he did his job and was cooperative with others was the days that he had taken his medicine.

So, I guess the question is... would it be better for him to not take it, in which case, no one who knew better should hire him. Or should he take it and be able to work.

Having said that, my brother and sister are both on medications for life and I think it is ridiculous. They might have issues but I know they will never face them or even have any self awareness as long as they are medicated.

Recently I've been increasingly thinking that people are all wired differently and a massive range of neurological and psychological states are actually normal. All of this mental illness stuff is just another form of natural diversity in people.

I'm not trying to belittle anyone either, but we can't just label people as having a mental illness because they behave in ways we don't like. Perhaps trying to mould people into a more socially acceptable version of themselves just creates the problem in the first place?

Drugs are the other issue, because many are very addictive and difficult to come off.

noseymutegirl wrote: I think the second bit kind of answers the first...
We don't know the chef's story, what may have led to his behavior patterns. Plenty of us go through stuff that lead us to act badly. Some of us are just ers. Some of us have chemical imbalances that lead to very debilitating symptoms/behaviours.
I worked in EBD, those kids exhibited all kinds of 'bad behaviour'. Many were medicated. That does not mean they all had a medical condition.

what sort of disorder are we talking about ere exactly

BC - I think we are talking about what is classified, sometimes loosely, as BPD.
dubmeup wrote:
From my viewpoint, what I saw is a man with responsibilities. He had the cutest little boy, and a brilliant wife who I often wondered what her life might be like if she had no hooked up with him but she had. When he took his medication everyone was happy. When he didn't he not only effected the workplace, it had an impact on his family. I will tell you that his wife wished he would take it. His wife also knew that if she and her boy ever left him that he would be destroyed.

I don't think you can make sweeping generalizations about medications or personality types. And when others peoples lives are involved then those things need to be taken into consideration.

So, in this particular situation, do you think it best he did or did not take his medication regardless of what caused his problem in the first place?

Another thing I saw was that when he took it regularly, he was actually nice to be around and I could tell he was more comfortable with himself, too and it was the only time I ever saw him smile and I know that those smiles were genuine. I bet his little boy could see the difference.

according to the wiki link only adults should be considered BPD.....Teenagers have not settled into "reality" yet.....

Anyway...It's obvious that as the 21 century gets crazier & crazier more & more people will start being unable to deal with it.... .

noseymutegirl wrote:
I can't really say can I but, medication can certainly have a short term positive effect for people. Even if there is no actual 'medical' condition. Imho if it's to be used it needs to be used as a crutch whilst the real work goes on. That may be in the form of counselling, learning techniques to deal with the things happening in the brain and/or emotions or making changes to one's lifestyle.
Currently we have a situation where far too much emphasis is placed on meds because they are a relatively easy 'fix'. People can be left popping pills for ever which often creates as many issues as it fixes.

meaning:

noseymutegirl wrote:
Then to be honest i know fuck all about this disorder, and won't post in this thread again, thankyou