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TOPIC: Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end?

Re:Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 12 Feb 2014 03:24 #161

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simulacra wrote:
I know more about Islam than most here so don't worry about who knows what ok.


Not worried... and didn't question your knowledge of the subject, just your ignorance :thumbup:
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Re:Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 12 Feb 2014 07:52 #162

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simulacra wrote:
I know more about Islam than most here so don't worry about who knows what ok.


:arrowup:


simulacra wrote:
I have no interest in the individual posters really, just the general ignorance that passes for "truth" these days.


:loco:
This is where my bottom line would be if it existed.
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Re:Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 12 Feb 2014 12:26 #163

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IWTT wrote:
............
Oh please! The McCanns appointed these private investigators (with some help from Brian Kennedy - double glazing BK not Uncle BK).

The McCanns have controlled and manipulated the investigation from the early hours of 4th May 2007. (They have had some how powerful back-up which has enabled them to do this.) They were included in weekly meetings at the British Consulate when the PJ gave an update. The McCanns spoke highly of the PJ's investigation - until the PJ turned their attention onto them. They were so comfortable with Ricardo Paiva.(the family liaison officer) that they had family get-togethers where the twins played with the Paiva children. But in September 2007, when the McCanns were being questioned under arguido status, Kate McCann was calling Ricardo Paiva "F*****g Tosser" under her breath (see 'Madeleine' by Kate McCann). ricardopaivakatesfingtosser.blogspot.co....s-from-her-book.html

It was the British police (working alongside the PJ) who asserted that the focus should turn onto the parents. Mark Harrison spent a week in July 2007 going through all the evidence files and wrote a summary report giving further clear advice to the PJ to focus on the parents and start looking for a body. www.mccannfiles.com/id293.html It was Mark Harrison (in that report) who suggested that an EVRD and a CSI dog should be deployed. (It was the famous Eddie and Keela who were actually brought over from South Yorkshire Police.)

If it turns out she was abducted, the McCanns reaction is perfectly understandable. And a whole load of internet conspiracists and trolls will owe them a big apology. If they did accidentally kill and bury her they will have been uncovered as psychopaths.
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Re:Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 12 Feb 2014 12:55 #164

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Likely we/anyone will never get to the bottom of it, even if a body was found, it would/might not prove who did what.
So as long as the McCanns (if they are guilty) holiday group keep tight lipped, then even if they are guilty it will be unlikely that anything will be pinned to them.
In addition since the group have (if the McCanns are guilty) chosen to help them, then it would not now be in their own interest to later blab.

As for the driveway, if it was my missing child, I'd be wanting it dug. I'm sure if the McCann's legal representatives were to kick up a fuss, the Portugal justice system would provide a warrant for the dig, the owner could then have the drive re-concreted by contractors on behalf of the state.
Two questions remain
1) Why would the drive owner not wish to clarify the 'no body' ?
2) Why would the McCanns not want to look there?

TBH I don't think it will prove that anyone is particularly innocent or guilty by finding a body, what it will do is change the focus of the investigation, who would not want the focus of the investigation changed, as of now the current focus has not produced any conclusive evidence?

Who would not wish to look for conclusive evidence thus change the focus?
This is where my bottom line would be if it existed.
Last Edit: 12 Feb 2014 12:59 by Blue_Tackler.
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Re:Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 12 Feb 2014 13:12 #165

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Blue_Tackler wrote:
Likely we/anyone will never get to the bottom of it, even if a body was found, it would/might not prove who did what.
So as long as the McCanns (if they are guilty) holiday group keep tight lipped, then even if they are guilty it will be unlikely that anything will be pinned to them.
In addition since the group have (if the McCanns are guilty) chosen to help them, then it would not now be in their own interest to later blab.

As for the driveway, if it was my missing child, I'd be wanting it dug. I'm sure if the McCann's legal representatives were to kick up a fuss, the Portugal justice system would provide a warrant for the dig, the owner could then have the drive re-concreted by contractors on behalf of the state.
Two questions remain
1) Why would the drive owner not wish to clarify the 'no body' ?
2) Why would the McCanns not want to look there?

TBH I don't think it will prove that anyone is particularly innocent or guilty by finding a body, what it will do is change the focus of the investigation, who would not want the focus of the investigation changed, as of now the current focus has not produced any conclusive evidence?

Who would not wish to look for conclusive evidence thus change the focus?

I have already answered that when you first raised the issue of ground radar in Murats garden.
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Re:Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 12 Feb 2014 13:21 #166

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barnfish wrote
I have already answered that when you first raised the issue of ground radar in Murats garden.

If you're referring to your answer about 'the sniffer dogs have checked the area' or something like that, then you must bring this into consideration.

According to Gerry McCann, the dogs are unreliable.

So why rely on them for the driveway ?

Or are they reliable to suit?
This is where my bottom line would be if it existed.
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Re:Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 12 Feb 2014 18:30 #167

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Blue_Tackler wrote:
barnfish wrote
I have already answered that when you first raised the issue of ground radar in Murats garden.

If you're referring to your answer about 'the sniffer dogs have checked the area' or something like that, then you must bring this into consideration.

According to Gerry McCann, the dogs are unreliable.

So why rely on them for the driveway ?

Or are they reliable to suit?

I cannot speak for the McCanns. What does the radar image actually show? Is there any sign from the surface the ground has been dug up? Is there any other evidence to say she is buried there?
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Re:Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 12 Feb 2014 19:14 #168

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Barnfish wrote:
Blue_Tackler wrote:
barnfish wrote
I have already answered that when you first raised the issue of ground radar in Murats garden.

If you're referring to your answer about 'the sniffer dogs have checked the area' or something like that, then you must bring this into consideration.

According to Gerry McCann, the dogs are unreliable.

So why rely on them for the driveway ?

Or are they reliable to suit?

I cannot speak for the McCanns. What does the radar image actually show? Is there any sign from the surface the ground has been dug up? Is there any other evidence to say she is buried there?

Oh I thought you had stated that the reason that the McCanns had not wanted the drive way dug up. was because the driveway/garden had already been sniffed by the dogs, and given the all clear?
I know you're not 'speaking for the McCanns' but you gave that as a reason.

So if that's the reason you gave (for them to be not judged as guilty) then you must appreciate that 'they' (don't trust the sniffer dogs).


So why would they not want the driveway dug up]

barnfish wrote
Is there any sign from the surface the ground has been dug up? Is there any other evidence to say she is buried there?

A new reason ?

Oh come on that's what the McCanns do, change reasons to suit?
This is where my bottom line would be if it existed.
Last Edit: 12 Feb 2014 19:21 by Blue_Tackler.
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Re:Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 12 Feb 2014 20:35 #169

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I have not added a new reason. I told you about my previous post which listed various reason and you responded by only referring to the dogs. I replied to that and reiterated the other reasons. Here they are again.

That the dogs indicated nothing, there is no sign of digging at that point and what was found by the radar does not indicate a body, but instead three voids means there are multiple reasons to say there is no body there.
Last Edit: 12 Feb 2014 20:36 by Barnfish.
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Re:Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 13 Feb 2014 00:02 #170

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I have already stated that I give no credence to the alleged evidence of Madeleine being buried under the Murat's drive.

But if the McCanns want to 'Leave No Stone Unturned' they should put up the £50,000 to pay Correio da Manhã the 'holding fee' that they require. The McCanns have wasted far more that £50,000 on each bogus investigator that they have approved and hired.

I agree that we have no PJ reports in the evidence files regarding Eddie's and Keela 's findings in the Murat garden in August 2007. But we have to remember that some statements and reports were held back. I, personally, think that Robert Murat and the driveway is another red herring.

But what we would have said about Kerry Needham last year if she hadn't have called for digging when someone came forward with evidence that suggested Ben had fallen into ground works at the back of the grandparents' house? www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ben-nee...-police-find-1393687

IMO, the McCanns and their backers are standing on the stones, never mind insisting that they are over turned!

Operation Grange has cost over £6 million so far. Nothing new has come to light and the Met (including Andy Redwood) present themselves as puppets!
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Re:Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 13 Feb 2014 10:53 #171

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I take it as an assumed fact, if such a thing exists, that the driveway was concreted about the time that MMcC went missing.
So if she's 'gone' and possibly murdered and an investigator has evidence that the ground was dug prior to the concreting at the time she went missing, surly at least the police or the McCann's could do their own tests, with 'below surface radar equipment'.

I know it's possible to drill next to the driveway, on soil, and then get a camera on a cable that is fed under the ground to check for evidence, or a tunnel could be dug, dogs could then go into the tunnel, and then the tunnel refilled, so there to begin with is no need to dig up the driveway, as it can be checked by using other methods, also soil samples may have evidence of decomposed tissue/clothes etc....

It would only need be the one area checked, no need to break the driveway.
I'm sure that the Portugal Police authorities would have such animals trained.
This is where my bottom line would be if it existed.
Last Edit: 13 Feb 2014 11:07 by Blue_Tackler.
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Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 13 Feb 2014 11:25 #172

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Leaving no stone unturned does not mean going to the nth degree to satisfy the whim of every crackpot, amateur, internet sleuth. I would be inclined to ignore clairvoyants and Miss Marples sleuths and concentrate on proper investigation.
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Re:Re: Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 13 Feb 2014 12:06 #173

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Barnfish wrote:
I would be inclined to ignore clairvoyants and Miss Marples sleuths and concentrate on proper investigation.

Agreed. Sadly there has, as yet, been very little proper investigation.

Getting Kate McCann to answer the 48 questions put to her by the Portuguese police would be a good starting point.
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Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 13 Feb 2014 14:58 #174

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Barnfish wrote:
Leaving no stone unturned does not mean going to the nth degree to satisfy the whim of every crackpot, amateur, internet sleuth. I would be inclined to ignore clairvoyants and Miss Marples sleuths and concentrate on proper investigation.

But this guy is not an internet sleuth, this is where you're altering perspectives Barnfish.

I'm not proposing any internet 'Miss Marple' investigations, I'm proposing that the McCanns should look for their 'missing daughter' when someone has discovered a possibility with some 'inconclusive evidence'.

I mean If I came out and said 'I think I know where she is' I'd expect them to listen/look at my evidence and not dismiss it.
So it's got nothing to do with 'internet sleuths' or other accusations that you make when you are faced with a bit of information that is not comfortable to deal with.

Look at it without being judgemental of the folk that are pointing it out.

A toddler goes missing.
A person say's he's scanned a recently dug/laid driveway in the area and he think's she's there.
The parents dismiss this and are not interested in looking.

I point out this behaviour by the parents, other posters also, and instead of coming out with a reasonable answer you decide to start using terms such as 'internet sleuth' 'Miss Marple' etc....
Because there is no reason for them not to look, unless of course
1) They know she's there.
2) They know she's not there.
Either way they must know where she is then?
Otherwise they'd go look at what this man has discovered and at least check it out themselves.
This is where my bottom line would be if it existed.
Last Edit: 13 Feb 2014 15:15 by Blue_Tackler.
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Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 13 Feb 2014 17:38 #175

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Barnfish wrote:
Leaving no stone unturned does not mean going to the nth degree to satisfy the whim of every crackpot, amateur, internet sleuth. I would be inclined to ignore clairvoyants and Miss Marples sleuths and concentrate on proper investigation.

Then why are you doing the exact opposite.....you are seeking to draw this out as much as possible and have been doing so long enough, then you claim you wont go to the nth degree as you put it,

I personally would not engage you in any conversation on this, as your motives are clear to me, and to call others crackpots because they do not tow your team line shows exactly what you are about, considering you have been insidiously drawing as much information others have as possible..........

This is how i feel about you.....

Wolf In Sheeps Clothing
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Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 13 Feb 2014 18:04 #176

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Barnfish wrote:
Leaving no stone unturned does not mean going to the nth degree to satisfy the whim of every crackpot, amateur, internet sleuth. I would be inclined to ignore clairvoyants and Miss Marples sleuths and concentrate on proper investigation.

I'm finding this comment really strange. If that was my child, I'd have dug the place up with my bare hands if necessary.
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Re:Re: Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 14 Feb 2014 14:36 #177

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Verlander wrote:
Barnfish wrote:
I would be inclined to ignore clairvoyants and Miss Marples sleuths and concentrate on proper investigation.

Agreed. Sadly there has, as yet, been very little proper investigation.

Getting Kate McCann to answer the 48 questions put to her by the Portuguese police would be a good starting point.

All of the questions have been answered. The time they were not answered was when she was asked them under caution as a suspect.
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Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 14 Feb 2014 14:59 #178

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Blue_Tackler wrote:
......
Look at it without being judgemental of the folk that are pointing it out.

A toddler goes missing.
A person say's he's scanned a recently dug/laid driveway in the area and he think's she's there.
The parents dismiss this and are not interested in looking.

...........

The actual events are

A toddler goes missing.
A person (a businessman, who has been trying to broker a deal to sell the rights to the hoped for dig)
say's he's scanned (by breaking into the property such that he cannot return to Portugal without being arrested)
a recently dug/laid driveway (where do you get that from? It is gravel with weeds growing through it including the part where he says there may be a body. Were the weeds put back when the drive was supposedly dug up? Is there any evidence to say it was recently dug up by disturbance on the surface)
and he thinks she is there (based on three voids below the surface with what experience of ground radar and interpreting the results?).

Then to add to the above -
The police and a cadaver dog have searched the same place and found nothing at all.
There has been no independent assessment of the scan results by experts that I can find.
Murat and the McCanns have been investigated to a very high degree such that the police do not believe they would have had the opportunity to bury her there.

Your version is the judgemental one, not mine which looks at everything, not just some parts.
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Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 14 Feb 2014 15:06 #179

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Gilly wrote:
Barnfish wrote:
Leaving no stone unturned does not mean going to the nth degree to satisfy the whim of every crackpot, amateur, internet sleuth. I would be inclined to ignore clairvoyants and Miss Marples sleuths and concentrate on proper investigation.

I'm finding this comment really strange. If that was my child, I'd have dug the place up with my bare hands if necessary.

Fine, pay the money to Murat and Birch and do it and face being ripped off again by bogus investigators. Ignore the other evidence that there is no body there.

Would you dig where a clairvoyant had said she was buried, but there was not just no other evidence to say she was buried there, there was evidence to say she was not there at all? If after being the victim of various bogus investigations would you keep paying out for more?

You and others who are so sure she is there should pay up and do it rather than not do it and snipe at others who will not pay up and do it.
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Madeleine McCann Saga: will it ever end? 14 Feb 2014 19:54 #180

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Barnfish wrote:
Gilly wrote:
Barnfish wrote:
Leaving no stone unturned does not mean going to the nth degree to satisfy the whim of every crackpot, amateur, internet sleuth. I would be inclined to ignore clairvoyants and Miss Marples sleuths and concentrate on proper investigation.

I'm finding this comment really strange. If that was my child, I'd have dug the place up with my bare hands if necessary.

Fine, pay the money to Murat and Birch and do it and face being ripped off again by bogus investigators. Ignore the other evidence that there is no body there.

Would you dig where a clairvoyant had said she was buried, but there was not just no other evidence to say she was buried there, there was evidence to say she was not there at all? If after being the victim of various bogus investigations would you keep paying out for more?

You and others who are so sure she is there should pay up and do it rather than not do it and snipe at others who will not pay up and do it.

You'll be doing us both a favour if you don't try to put words in my mouth, Barnfish. ;)

I didn't say that I was sure she was there, and nor did I snipe, so you can knock that off.

Why the hell wouldn't they choose to follow up that lead (which has got sweet FA to do with clairvoyance) - they seem to have plenty of charitable funds supplied to them for continual investigation (some of which I helped raise in the past btw) so let's not pretend the cost is an issue.
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