Steevo wrote:
I've checked that thread in the last few days and quite frankly it disgust me If there are 18% of people who are unsure then there are 18% who are easily manipulated and it wont take to long before the psy_op's which is the dif will have them believing Hitler was a benevolent leader/the nazi were the champions of the world/getting rid of the Jew's in the world would be the right thing to do.

That DOES make sense I have to say. Cheers Thoreau!

Boots wrote:
Yep.

I think that the Icke forum has been infultrated on lots of different levels.

thoreau wrote:
The problem is that the points you raise here do not stand up to logic and reason and to apply logic and reason simply leaves the person applying it open to persecution under the fictitious label of antisemite and/or racist.

First of all the Jewish people aren't a race under their own principles of acceptance into their faith. Anyone of any faith from any nation can become a Jew. The only requirement is conversion and adherence to the rules and teachings of the Jewish faith. Under those terms anyone following the Jewish faith is simply signing up to a cult it can't be considered a race.

The antisemitic label is simply an attempt at circumventing the lack of a race status by the semantic perversion of language. The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in the Near East, including; Akkadians (including Assyrians and Babylonians), Eblaites, Ugarites, Canaanites/Phoenicians (including Carthaginians), Hebrews (Israelites, Judeans and Samaritans), Ahlamu, Arameans, Chaldeans, Amorites, Moabites, Edomites, Hyksos, Arabs, Nabateans, Maganites, Shebans, Sutu, Ubarites, Dilmunites, Bahranis, Maltese, Mandaeans, Sabians, Syriacs, Mhallami, Amalekites and also Ethiopian Semitic speakers.

Any of the above can be Jewish if they chose to convert and follow the faith of the Jewish religious teachings.

This situation and terminology can only work through emotive manipulation at the expense of sound logic and reason.

Now I have lite the blue paper we can sit back and watch the standard reaction to something stated without any resist or abusive intent. That is exactly the result expected by the use of these simple yet effective devices. For the record I reject and dislike all organised religions equally. I personally can't subscribe to anything on the basis of blind faith and that is a position that I can't be swayed on.

I can also assure you that I haven't written that in defense of Sean or Icke.

David icke is an anti Semite.

The headline page of Ickes has an article telling people not to sign a petition to put banker's behind bars.

www.davidicke.com/headlines/69365-put-ba...oros-sponsored-avaaz

The only reason he thinks that it shouldn't be signed is because he believes the site is run by Jooooos.

What then does Icke think? That the bankers in the Libor scandal should just go on as they are and that they shouldn't be held up to laws that government the financial sector?

@ steevo and thoreau,

Icke should know the ideology behind Zionism which is a religious ideology in the belief that the return of the jews to the land of Israel will bring the return of Jesus, this belief is as much a Fundy Christian belief as a fundy Jewish belief and there are MORE Christian Zionist than there are Jewish ones, Mitt Romney is a committed Christian Zionist, a Mormon.

So is Icke that thick he cant stipulate between the two?

Boots wrote:
Hi Boots. I reckon that the PTB have an agenda of closing the existing national banks down, and replacing them with something else, in a new type of society.The PTB also want to get rid of Federal Reserve (as we ALL do) but the PTB want us to think that people power brought about these changes --- All of this is just my CURRENT opinion

I still dont reckon that Icke is an "anti-semite" (and I still hate that term). But I cant read people's minds.

Boots wrote:
I think David Icke's primary concern will be the negative impact a banking collapse will have on his investment portfolio above all other considerations. He is a business man who doesn't like to be parted from his stash of cash.

Frog wrote:
It certainly seems that way he MIGHT think, it's killing two birds with one stone.

@frog - Whilst I readily admit that if one wants to play semantics over words then there is an argument that the term 'anti semite' should allude to those who speak a semitic language

The term semite comes from a time when 'anthropology was still bound by the bible' and its current general usage means hatred towards jews. We can argue all day about whether or not it should mean that because others peoples speak semitic languages, but that is rather diversionary tactic employed to take focus off the issue which is hatred against jews.

Whether or not jews are a race is a huge argument which even jewish peoples cannot agree on - and again we could discuss both sides of any argument all day and not reach a conclusion and still the hatred against jews would remain just that, hatred.

Whether that hatred is called out as anti semitic or racist or as plain 'jew hate' really is not the issue imho.

Frog wrote: I wouldn't disagree with what you're saying here, but if someone wrote "the Germans are all a bunch of backstabbing rats", although they're not a race, it couldn't technically be termed 'racism', but I would call it unacceptable bigotry.

BTW for those who were wondering, you can read more about Icke's views on Zionism here:

www.rense.com/theelephant.html

I'm not sure how true this is, but Chomsky has said the following:

www.chomsky.info/interviews/19970609.htm

Steevo wrote:
Hi steevo, there are no real national banks in the world today steevo I checked the world bank site yesterday and there are over 150 countries who are member's of the world bank ( it ties in with all the other's BIS etc ) and the banks within that are private banks

There are many public banks set up especially in the USA within different states. these are of course not national banks.

I know what you mean that they want to collapse the entire banking system to bring in a one world banking system, however mate I think that is already the case lets say they bring in a one world currency the world bank is already set up for that.

I dont like using labels myself, ie anti semite, however neo nazi like to dismiss that term for then they can't be seen as Jew hater's.

Boots wrote:
Bankers are the POTENTIAL scapegoat for the economic collapse. The "Bankers" (another generalisation/vague term/label) would then be demonised (rightly so lol), and then possibily jailed, and we can all then happily move on and live in the new society that is planned for us.

I dont like the term anti-semite because it gives the impression in the people's minds that that group (Jews ?) are getting SPECIAL protection, and that wont sit well with people. The mainstream media news casters appear to hate Muslims but THEY dont get labelled with any special name - It's now seen as acceptable to slag off Muslims.
Neo Nazi is a label. I hate ALL labels. But I love EVERYBODY .....except for them damn Illuminazis

Steevo wrote:


Well Steevo I think there is a world banking system already in place.

There will be a few who will be sent to jail...if it's allowed......based on legislation that is there to be enacted now, that is what this petition is set up for. There are 1000's of bank manager's who do follow the rules and if these top dogs get flung in the slammer there are ones who will take their place and wont manipulate the interest rates.

There is a term now regarding Muslim hatred, they are calling it Islamphobia.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
Icke bangs on about Rothschild Zionism yet he misses the point of the religious Zionism aspect, that being the belief that if the jews are returned to the 'Holy Land' the return of Jesus will soon follow this is the belief of fundamental Christian which is termed Christian Zionism,. that is the cornerstone of revelations in the bible. Christian Zionism has been around a lot longer than Hetzel idea of a Zionist state.

The Rothschilds have ties with the Roman Catholic Church, they are Knight's of Malta ( not all of course ) and you dont get in there unless you follow the Christian theology.


www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica...sociopol_malta01.htm

Boots wrote:
A lot of people who believe in conspiracy theories are just as easily persuaded as those who adamantly do not believe
It is the small percentage of people who have a good mental firewall for bullshit (of both the mainstream kind and the wacko kind) who are not easily persuaded.

That might upset a few people but its quite true, I spent a fair bit of time reading all these psych books and various paraphernalia I love so much

I love your view on zionism btw boots and how it also ties in with mormonism in the US.
It might be worth investigating a link between envangelical xtian stuff and mormons.

Thanks andyh

You get to point where there is so much info that it becomes a cloud and not every researcher has the ultimate truth, relying on one person to tell you the truth gives away your own power to search the truth, which is subjective.

I will look into that aspect of Zionism concerning the Mormons it has more traction considering Romney is getting a big foothold in the up coming presidential elections.

BTW, I notice icke or his forum were pushing the lie that Mitt Romney was a Jewish Zionist.

To be honest what I see here is mormons+transhumanism+evangeligal right+israel= shitload of trouble.

For example...
www.pauldrockton.com/CNN.html

^Ignore the rest of the site but this snippet of info is interesting, the moromons in bed with ted turner...
The only guy I have ever seen give ted turner a telling off on TV was carl sagan.
Turner is f*cking scary.

thoreau wrote:
I guess the question there is why has the traditional meaning of the word been hijacked and narrowed down to serve a minority group. Who determined that that is the current general usage and what advantage is there to be gained by one minority group claiming exclusive rights to the new definition? Personally I don't think it's hard to determine the answer to those questions using logic and reason.

Well it would strike me as odd that they can't understand the difference especially when they are claiming some supper linguistic skills on one had to change the meaning of a word and fail dismally with the definition of another well defined word.

It is clear that the Jewish religion welcomes anyone who converts to and follows the Jewish faith regardless of their previous faith or nationality. They also state that all followers of their faith are treated as equals regardless of whether they have joined through conversion or birth into a Jewish family. I fail to see how there can be any confusion on that issue unless it's for convenience.

Well I guess that would depend on how you determine the difference between hate and reasoned questioning based on logic and reason. That seems to the the point where the waters become murky and I would suggest that that is by design going by the logic and reason I expressed earlier. IMHO it has a far more negative effect than positive, due to the divisiveness and it's tactical use in an increasingly PC world.

Determining the intent is the critical issue on all sides of the argument.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
I'm not sure I get the point your trying to make with that statement the Germans aren't a race. Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by heritable phenotypic characteristics, geographic ancestry, physical appearance, ethnicity, and social status.

The points I was making weren't in relation to bigotry. I was specifically pointing out the flaws in the logic and reason based on the use of term antisemitic and the definition of a race.

Who, what, where, when and why?