Frog wrote:
Yeh it work both ways... but as with the example above, the rational thing to do would be to hold that belief until evidence proves otherwise - otherwise it's purely either about an agenda, or being disillusioned, since the gambit itself isn't open ended.
'where are the documents'?
'here'.

oioioi wrote: hadaka_jimmy wrote:

Space Bandit wrote:
I'd even go as far as to say anybody who dupes others into putting their lives on the line to pursue any agenda is also a cunt.

oioioi wrote:
Agreed.

dubmeup wrote:
Interesting way of reacting! How is that a lie? As far as I'm aware the over whelming majority of residents in Israel are Jewish. The point is that the actions of their government reflect on them whether they object or not in the same way the actions of the British government reflect on us. Is that a difficult concept to grasp? Is the Israeli government made up of members of the Jewish faith or did I miss something?

What is being suggested then exactly? From what I read earlier it seemed like a pretty broad brush was being used to tar everyone. Maybe we aren't reading the same posts.

Nope after rereading it I don't see an alternative way to make it easier for you to grasp. Sorry. Unless there is a spelling mistake which I can't see that is causing you some problems. In which case I apologies for my inability to spell.

oioioi wrote:
*insert the name of any leader of any country ever here*

welcome back Dubs, and welcome Gue­varista...

Frog wrote:
1This, "and the other is made up of a Jew­ish pop­u­la­tion will­ing to com­mit geno­cide on the Pales­tini­ans..." is your unverifiable lie. Hey lets go around it in circles You do understand what you said there do you?

2From what I have read (which I happen to agree with) what has been suggested is that the DIF tolerates high levels of anti Jew propaganda and hate. Crass hate filled generalizations are apparent to anyone who spends more than 5 minutes there.

3I asked Ms dub to read your last paragraph and she too thinks that it is unclear what your actual point was......

It is interesting that in revising the holocaust the majority of arguments are purely to do with the number and manner in which jews were or were not killed. Very little about the other groups of people affected is mentioned - the fact that the holocaust is seen primarily in terms of a crime against jewish peoples is something a lot of those wishing to argue the toss over numbers frequently point out and yet they rarely address that which they decry as being ignored.

Much of the rhetoric on the dif stems from the idea that jewish peoples are somehow different to the rest of humanity - are more capable of atrocities or horrendous acts of inhumanity purely because they are jewish - that is anti semitic as this is the base line that much discussion stems from is it any wonder that those genuinely interested in certain topics but do not hold anti semitic views are caught up in the cross fire?

I am of the belief that I can hold a conversation about israel or the holocaust here without it resulting in anti semitism - unless the person is anti semitic - If you have a dislike and distrust of jewish people based purely on the fact that they are jewish that is anti jewish - which is what anti semitic is generally held to mean. If you do not have a dislike and distrust of jewish people based purely on the fact that they are jewish and therefore not anti jewish it should be pretty easy to talk in terms that dont allude to an anti jewish perspective.

Why do people dislike being labeled antisemitic? perhaps it is because when one is made aware that someones agenda is one that comes from a hateful position the information they are imparting tends to be viewed with that bias taken into consideration and any argument they present becomes less compelling for those not wishing to become caught up in hate.

That is why the dif does such a disservice to many subjects that involve israel and jews - it is littered with people with hateful agendas that need to be countered to a point that no discussion can move forward.

I would be genuinely interested to discuss such subjects - but not with people who use them as a platform to denigrate jews rather then who are open minded enough to look at any evidence presented dispassionately and without pre conceived bias.

You won't get a decent rational discussion about such subjects on the DIF.

What you will get is endless repetitive cyclical bullshit about krema 2 and brothels and swimming pools and how Auschwitz was like Butlins.

Sorry to go one one folks, but it pisses me off. Holocaust deniers piss me off.

*bows out of thread for time being*

I'm with you on that one Diamond Geezer

The denial of what happened in ww2 in unbelievable.

Of course it happened , I think there is pretty solid evidence it did, many of our grandparents were over there.

Can't be arsed with the posters who say 'it is all made up, the jews invented it'

dubmeup wrote:
The British willingly went to war with Iraq. What's the difference?

That's one interpretation I guess. They also tolerate an awful lot of people who present an alternative view some equally as extreme as the other.

How would you speak out against the actions of a government without also speaking out against the population? Particularly given the governments in question are elected by the people they represent.

dawnbreak wrote:
Yep. I don't get why anyone would pursue dismissing such a thing so vehemently (as holocaust deniers tend to). OK, it didn't happen, now what? It's ok to be a Nazi? It's ok to persecute Jews?

diamondgeezer wrote:
You won't get a decent rational discussion here either as can see in this thread Is-it-OK-to-question-the-Holocaust-on-this-Forum.html. Strange how it seems to be a taboo subject that seems to be too hard for people to discuss freely and rationally, wherever and when it's brought up. Suspiciously so!

Frog wrote:
OK, it didn’t hap­pen, now what? It’s ok to be a Nazi? It’s ok to per­se­cute Jews?

oioioi wrote:
Them nazis were definitely dodgy IMO Whether or not the holocaust happened as it is written in the history books, I dont know cos I wasnt there to witness it. But IMO I would have thought that something like that DID happen.....but I cant EVER be sure cos I wasnt there

oioioi wrote:
Who said it didn't happen? Are you claiming that it happened exactly as it is written in the history books? It would depend on what you associate with the term Nazi. Was it exclusive to the Jews?

andyh wrote:
FWIW the most deranged one on there has to be KOTG.
He seems to want nothing but him and his immediate family left on the planet, the only other exception being his God.
I think he fancies himself as Noah or Abraham or something...with an extra special heaping of Romans XIII.

Then ofc theres arcyclus or whatever he calls himself..'the black libertarian'...who hates immigrants and supports having a perfect benevolent dictator
Is it me or is he actually a fat spotty teenage cunt who lives in bottingham and hasn't managed to get laid or get a job?

andyh wrote:
You'll be getting no argument from me with any of that andy, that's for sure