Thanks for the PM

We both agree that religious Zionism isn't a major factor for the superpowers to be in the ME, It really boils down to commerce when trying to figure out who controls the world, and the ME has loads of oil with the infrastructure in place to obtain that commodity.

Just for the purpose of this thread I just wanted to put forward that there is another part of Zionism which ISN'T discussed by David Icke and certainly not on the DIF.

Thanks for your understanding BW, your a good man.

Thanks to andyh for this bit of info.

The Mormon Church

Author: Madsen, Truman G.

Zion (Hebrew, early the Jerusalem mountain on which the City of David was built) is employed in LDS scripture both geographically and spiritually: the land of Zion and "the pure in heart" (D&C 84:99;97:21;100:16; cf. Moses 7:18-21). The declaration that "we believe in the literal gathering of Israel and the restoration of the ten tribes" refers to a new Zion in America as well as a renewed Jerusalem in the Old World. Latter-day scripture declares that Jerusalem will become the spiritual-temporal capital of the whole Eastern Hemisphere, "One Great Centre, and one mighty Sovereign" (MFP 1:259), while Zion will be the place of refuge and divine direction in the Western Hemisphere.

In 1831, less than two years after the organization of the Church, Joseph Smith received a revelation that included the imperative "Let them who be of Judah flee unto Jerusalem, unto the mountains of the Lord's house" (D&C 133:13). In 1833 he wrote that the tribe of Judah would return and obtain deliverance at Jerusalem, citing Joel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Psalms, and Ezekiel (cf. TPJS, p. 17).

In March 1836, the dedicatory prayer given by Joseph Smith at the Kirtland temple-since canonized and used as a pattern in later LDS temple dedications-pleaded that "Jerusalem, from this hour, may begin to be redeemed; and the yoke of bondage may begin to be broken off from the house of David" (D&C 109:62-63). In 1840-1841, Orson Hyde, an apostle, was commissioned by the Prophet to go to Jerusalem and dedicate the land. His prayer petitioned for the gathering home of the exiles, the fruitfulness of the earth, the establishing of an independent government, the rebuilding of Jerusalem, and "rearing a Temple in honor of thy name" (Heschel, p. 18). Two years later, Joseph Smith prophesied that the gathering and rebuilding would occur "before the Son of Man will make his appearance" (TPJS, p. 286). These prayers and prophecies have been frequently reiterated by other apostolic authorities, both on the Mount of Olives and on Mount Carmel in the Holy Land and in official convocations of the Saints throughout the world.

Jewish tradition warns that commitment to "sacred soil" without faith in the living God is a form of idolatry. Early in the twentieth century the Zionist movement advocated a compromise between secular Zionists, who envisioned a state without traditional Judaism, and religious Zionists, who argued that the state must be grounded in traditional Judaism. History in the modern political state of Israel has thus far implemented that compromise.

Spiritual Zionism among Latter-day Saints is advocated in the setting of concern for all of the children of God. It does not pronounce on specific geopolitical struggles or endorse speculations on the exact "when" and "how" of the fulfillment of ancient and modern prophecy. Many LDS leaders see events of the past 160 years as a preface. They continue to plead for peace and for coexistence with all the peoples who lay claim to old Jerusalem and the Holy Land: Jewish, Christian, Islamic, and others.

The term Zion, pertaining to a spiritually significant New Jerusalem in America, is one of the central themes of the Doctrine and Covenants (see new Jerusalem).


eom.byu.edu/index.php/Zionism

www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10...ormons-make-money#p2

“There are religious groups that own radio stations, but they don’t also own cattle ranches. There are religious groups that own retreats, but they don’t also own insurance companies,” says Ryan Cragun, a sociology professor at the University of Tampa and co-author of the recently published book Could I Vote for a Mormon for President? “Given their array of corporate interests, it would probably make more sense to refer to them as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Holdings Inc.”

According to U.S. law, religions have no obligation to open their books to the public, and the LDS Church officially stopped reporting any finances in the early 1960s. In 1997 an investigation by Time used cross-religious comparisons and internal information to estimate the church’s total value at $30 billion. The magazine also produced an estimate that $5 billion worth of tithing flows into the church annually, and that it owned at least $6 billion in stocks and bonds. The Mormon Church at the time said the estimates were grossly exaggerated, but a recent investigation by Reuters in collaboration with sociology professor Cragun estimates that the LDS Church is likely worth $40 billion today and collects up to $8 billion in tithing each year.

Quinn, a faithful Mormon who spent 12 years on the faculty at the LDS Church’s Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah, before being excommunicated for apostasy related to research he published on Mormons, has been gathering financial information for years. Several high-ranking church insiders told him that the church’s finances are so compartmentalized that no single person, not even the president, knows the entirety of its holdings.

___________

Sounds like the typical structure of all secret societies.

Anti Zionism is code for anti Jewish. In my experience this is always the case. Antisemites are repeating the same lies and baseless accusations against the Jewish people calling it anti Zionism. Antisemites take photos of Israelis and make up captions they report it as news. Antisemites ignore millions of Arab crimes being committed at the same time! Have any of you visited Israel? How can you you say such things about Zionism and Israel without visiting? Zionism is different for the Jewish people versus WASP Christian Zionism. All of the problems with Zionism are because of Christians. They believe Jesus will return at the end of times if they support Israel, they care nothing for the Jewish people. Christians and Arabs are the problem, not the Jews.

You should visit Israel. The people are peaceful and the Arabs are more free versus any Muslim country. If World War 3 happens, it will be the Arabs fault. Arabs in Syria and Iran are your problem. Not Israel or Jewish people. Everywhere there are Arabs we have problems. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Gaza, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain. The list is endless. Christians have given Zionism a bad name and antisemites are blaming the Jews for what WASPs and Nazis are doing. Christian leaders in America like to associate themselves with the Jewish religion because of the old testament. You hear it all the time from their leaders. Judeo Christians. They want to associate with the Jews just so they can blame them. Nothing has changed in thousands of years. The Romans are now the Americans and the Jews have returned to their homeland peacefully and still are scapegoats.

passerbye999 wrote:
That is basically what this thread is all about :p

Specific types of christianity though with evidence.
As for the jews, well they are voters in the nation state of israel which ofc a terrorist state with more un violations than soft nelly.
To suggest they are completely without blame is a bit of a joke, the same applies for brits who keep voting labour/lib dem/tory and yanks who keep voting democrat/republican.

There is a video abve with Joe Biden saying he's a zionist, to then imply that it simply means 'anti-jew' is just pandering to MSM.
The xtians you mention ARE zionists..the one in the video openly admits it ffs lol...

andyh wrote:
In my experience anti Zionism is antisemitism. Not one argument I had with an anti Zionist has changed this. Eventually they show their true colors and bias to the Jewish people. Not once has an anti Zionist mention Arab hostilities. It is always jooz this and jooz that. The Arabs had over 60 years to prove to the world they wanted peace. Suicide bombing, plane hijacking, pushing Jews to the sea is not peace. I have history on my side to prove these facts. Arab regimes, like Iran, have sworn to wipe Israel off the map. My friend in Israel has relatives in Iran and they fear for their lives. He thinks Ahmadinejad is building gas chambers for Jews in Iran.

When Netanyahu addressed US congress Biden did not clap or give standing ovations for statements the rest of congress clapped and gave standing ovations. Undivided Jerusalem was one. Biden also said over his dead body to freeing Pollard. Christian Zionists care nothing for the Jewish people. There are problems in Israel and Israel is not the blame. Americans are to blame. Arabs are to blame. It is true about the un resolutions. Who supports them? Who encourages them to ignore these resolution? Americans. WASPs and Christian Zionists.

Jews are a peaceful people and Judaism is the religion of peace. You should visit a Jewish community, you will see how they accept you and peaceful. You will see these things if you visit Israel. Do not believe the lies of alternative media or antisemitic anti war websites, they want to kill all the Jews.

Look at these things. Generating baseless lies about Israel, encouraging Israel ignore international law and un resolution, ignoring Arab crimes, quoting Israelis out of context, denying the holocaust, blaming Israel for Arab problems, encouraging Israel neighbors not to make refugees citizens. This is manufactured to kill all the Jews. The US won't attack Iran and Israel will attack. Iran will play victim and MSM will sympathize. Russia, China or some Arab country like Pakistan will nuke Israel. Israel has sworn to attack all enemies. By not protecting the Jewish state, all Europe are enemies. Israel has submarines by Europe coasts with nukes, it is no secret. Why do you think they have them? For if the Jewish state falls and Europe doesn't help, they are enemies. Israel will be forced to attack. Is that what you want? The great tragedy is that in the aftermath the Jews will be blamed wherever they live. It will be acceptable to Kill Jews. This is why Christians are Zionist, their endgame is to kill all Jews.

tl;dr
help israel or be nuked

post moar

passerbye999 wrote: Thats because you have yet to meet people who know what specifically modern zionism is about today, as we have explained in this thread.
Well I sure as hell bang on about ALL abrahamic religion as being a complete and utter waste of time, but thats me
Its absolutely true to state that fundie american xtians support zionism, they've been arming israel to the teeth and supporting its policies and vetoing the UN on their behalf for a long time.
However...thats not to say that a lot of jews don't carry on voting for it. It takes two to tango.
I've been to both israel and arab states in the middle east, I have vivid memories of chop chop square in Riyadh on a Friday, I know all too well what its like.
However...you're making it sound like Israel is all fluffy bunny...you need to drop that attitude as its very easy to show they are anything but.

And so Israel has nukes and subs and wages war like the rest...again not very fluffy bunny.
To say the EU states are enemies for simply not 'protecting' israel is laughable.
Is Israel the enemy of Portugal because Israel isn't defending Portugal? Come on ffs lol

passerbye999 wrote:
You will get that, especially from the DIF and from many people with little intelligence.

The topic of Zionism is a complicated subject as there are many different aspects to it. People like to have absolutes, that way they dont have to think just react and humans feel more comfortable and in control when they just act from the emotional ego stand point.

Unfortunately this is what you have done also. it is your experience and I can't fault you for that because it IS your experience. It's not mine thou.
passerbye999 wrote:
I disagree with the last part of your paragraph vehemently. There are many good Arab's and Christians, you have to use the right words to describe people instead of just saying 'Arab's an Christians' by doing so you inadvertently making the same comparisons as those Neo Nazi's, who are just hateful people who will pick anyone or anything to project their own inadequacy onto other's.

I understand that many fail to take into account the atrocities committed by fanatical Muslims when talking about Jews, that gets back to what I said in the above paragraph.

There are as many fundamental Christians as there are fundamental Jews who believe that Jerusalem will be the returning of each ones Messiah. It's Bullshit, religion is bullshit, monotheistic religion was a creation to control people.
passerbye999 wrote:
In every country in the world you will find those who are a problem, so to speak, it doesn't matter where it is, whether it's Israel, Iran, UK, Australia or America. these numpties are a minority within their respective countries the REAL problem is the governments of these countries in the Middle East, and else where I might add.

I agree with the statement that America is the new Rome, you can see it in the architecture, the Laws and political system.

Now we have the same thing happening as what happened during the Roman times back in 70 AD, but this time the people will be the scapegoat, Jews and Arabs. and it is my opinion the ones behind that is the Jesuit order and behind that is really the mind of the Archon's or to put it plainly the psychopathic mind.

andyh wrote:
Thank you andyh this is what this thread is about.

I wouldn't just single out Israel as a terrorist state compared to say Hamas which is more terroristic in nature, then again all governments are acting as terrorist against their own people as well as other countries, unfortunately the people are followers of their governments through the use of the MSM and are to blind to see.

It's a long time since I read these, but Educate Yourself has a collection of articles on the theme of British Israel and the manipulation of Christians going back well over a century:

educate-yourself.org/cn/britishisraelhiddenhand10jul05.shtml

I've read the 4 pages of this thread and it seems I'm the first to ask the question as to what forces have created zionism, whether in it's Jewish or Christian variety? For me it's rather clear. It's the same power that created all the 'ism's designed to fragment mankind, jusify exploitation and create wars. Communism, Nazism, etc. etc. and plenty of organizations without an ism but just as clearly designed as useful tools to a particular end.

At the end of the day, in my opinion, it all leads to far older ism's: Luciferianism and Satanism, including the many packages throughout history and various cultures, which all basically boil down to the worship of evil, disincarnate entities / demons.

I know that many will scoff at the notion of evil; and also at good; or at the whole concept of non material intelligences, but for me it's the only explanation that makes any sense at all. However, don't expect me to get into a lather about making my point and justifying it, because our debates here will not alter the truth or fallacy of mine or your opinions. My life and my research has brought me to the point where I am 100% confident that there is a non-material reality to our existence that I can only slowly begin to comprehend. I know that for some this is a great excuse for personal attacks or ridicule, but I've learned to turn the other cheek because the stakes are now simply so high.

We have to question everything and everyone from every possible perspective and follow what we feel to be right, but with an openness to new information that might overthrow what we previously believed to be true, but not too hasty...

As for zionism as a bogeyman. It's just one of many and those who profess to be leading zionists are pyschopaths who change their colours as fast as you can blink an eye. Remember that Albert Pike foretold that the zionists and the islamists would mutually destroy each other. There are a minority of evil bastards on all sides, but the vast majority are ignorant stooges, some of them also evil, but mainly ignorant.

The key as I see it is to see through the theatre and keep on growing and developing as a human being. I don't understand why all this is happening, but it is. It's clearer every day and the satanic nature is also clearer. Whether you think satanism is just theatre or really is the interaction with demonic intelligences, the fact is that our modern age has become overtly satanic and the twats at the top take it very seriously indeed. The good is not so easy to see, but they must be there, otherwise this planet would a much, much worse than it is. But for whatever reasons, the good guys told us that it would be like this.

It's up to every individual to find their version of the truth. The first step is being true to yourself.

Who created the Roman Catholic Church?

www.reformation.org/simon_peter_versus_simon_magus.html

Understanding this interpretation, I say that instead of fact cause no one really knows the facts, it's speculation as is the idea that "Jews stole Britain".

I agree with you that in the end it's an evil force that hangs over our civilization and there are a few thought's on who or what that is, Archon's is a good example and there is a thread here on that, Off world intelligences is another and Stichin has put forward a good hypothesis on that.

In the end it boils down to the individual, then the collective consciousness fed by each individual.