Gilly wrote:
I agree. Having been forced into a catholic school at a young age, I can attest to how unnecessary it is. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated like that. If they want to take a religious path or theistic studies later in life when they're informed young adults, more power to them. Leave the small ones out of it though, it's just wrong.

@dogsmilk

Speaking as a Catholic that was brought up much the same as what you described earlier, I can whole heartedly support your posts above.

Anti-theism is just as dangerous as religious dogmatism. I have a brother who is an atheist and we respect each others POV mutually and deeply.

I am not even sure that catholic schools even have the desired effect. Rather the opposite.

However, the anarchist in me balks at the notion of allowing the state to force secularisation, or worse, the erdication of religion from schools.

IMHO it owuld be MUCH better to teach the basic tenants of all major world religions in an objective manner along with atheism and keep that seperate from Science: no Intelligent Design et.al.

Even from the POV of anthropology and sociology and international relations this is essential.

Moreover, literature, art, music and philosophy demand an understanding of such matters whether one agress with them or not.

Yes if they are run by Agnostics and study all religion not just one.

I don't understand why these days despite knowing the cultural composition, mythology and history of most of the planet, people insist on fighting wars over their different interpretations of what is God's true religion.

.

Guevarista wrote:
I agree with this whole heartedly, but I also blame economic and social injustice, war profiteering, and power consolidation along with narcicistic jingoism and plain old hate to be other factors in the push towards conflict.

I say that children should be allowed to keep a free open mind coming up, and as mature adults then they can decide whether or not they wish to give their souls to religion. I personally do not feel it is right to enforce manmade fear-based notions onto a young impressionable mind.

My mother's side of the family are Catholic and were raised that way. I am grateful that my parents had not indoctrinate my siblings and I into the religion coming up. We were never told we had to go to church or told we would go to hell. We were raised spiritual though.

wake_up_bomb wrote:

Sorry Mr pedantic bomb i never mentioned C of E ,I also like to apolagise for not mentioning krishna consciousness shooh in Harfordshire but i did say etc

Mountain wrote:
I am not denying some christians are taught that they are going to Hell. I would just like to say that I have never met a person in real life who has said this. Just nutter fundies on the Internet and TV.

Yes, I just think taking any religion for truth causes a lot of the problems you describe, i'd say especially Christianity seems to be constructed with the aim of making such situations acceptable, you know that "turn the other cheek" meek and mild mentality.

I think the prevalence of Christianity is a blight on Asia and Africa, where it destroys their ancestral culture, history, natural lifestyle and harmony with nature, where the poorest people in the country are encouraged not to use condoms and have many children, i saw a documentary where a London bus driver went to Jakarta to do the same job there, he stayed with a family who explained it is in their religion to have more children, they had pictures of jesus and little shrines for him, they were about 12 in a house the size of an average Western living room.

TBH I don't get why people from the west who are blessed with an education still believe in religion at all?

nirvana wrote: That's okay. Thanks for taking the time to apologise.

mikey mikey wrote:
I agree, although I think quietgirl made a good point about families wanting schools that fit their faith background which I do agree with as long as this is a backdrop, not forced. I'm thinking of the Catholic school that has a prayer room and Catholic assemblies but is basically a modern comprehensive beyond a bunch of trappings, as opposed to Father Jack ranting to the kids about how they're going to burn in hell.

And yes they should all teach all religions, or at least as many as possible.

I think you make an excellent point about anthropology and sociology. It is about understanding one another. And I think this as well as hopefully making people respect one another, it enhances our lives.

I read the Bible, and I think I don't believe this stuff, not for a second. But I hear Johnny Cash sing When The Man Comes Around and I fucking love that song. I find it very powerful - and the fact it's a religious song is what makes it powerful - I can key into that and feel how the religious sentiment gives that song its power. Same as if I walk into a Cathedral, I can get into the power if has. I can see someone kneeling and praying and get into what that's about and understand it. I can sort of become a Christian for a moment by really getting into what people see in Christianity without actually believing it - if that makes sense. It's about understanding what makes it tick and appreciating what people get out of it - not saying well it's all bullshit and that's that even if I pay lip serviceto your right to be a Christian. I don't have to believe in it to be able to get into it.

Yeah sure, God hates fags, stone the adulterers all that stuff can do one. But that isn't religion - anyone can be sadistic, brutal or a twat. I think Nirvana misses the bus with Islam because sure Islam has a really ugly side, sure people do messed up things in the name of Islam, sure Islamic states have some nasty laws. But this didn't happen in a vacuum - there's a long history of politics bound up with the West and reasons why Islam went all hardcore. And at the same time if you make the effort to try to find it, Islam has a really powerful spirituality to it too. These are huge, complicated belief systems with many facets to them bound up in history, culture and politics. It's not as simple as believe/don't believe. And you don't tackle religious fundamentalism with secular fundamentalism, A world without religion would be shite. I'll happily argue the Torah, the New Testament and the Koran are not the revealed word of any deity, but lets face it if we didn't have this stuff the world would be missing out on a lot of interesting stuff. And we'd still be kiling each other. The problem with religion is dogma and indoctrination. That is also a problem in secular philosophies. And at times religion has been a source of questioning received authority - just look at a fanous example like the Diggers.

Er yeah, well, went off on one there. Hope that made some kind of sense. I just don't like the way people get their knickers in a twist about religion. It's about what particular interpretations of particular religions do at particular times. Same as secular ideology. It should not be another reason for everyone to argue with each other. It should be a reason to see the world in different ways and see if you get anything out of it.

Faith schools are a very English thing


We had/have one here in Edinburgh .....St Agustines

It was a school that parents sent their children to if they thought the local school was a bit shit or they were very catholic


|Waste of time in my opinion and creates nothing but division and fights

Some interesting POVs here! I didn't seriously think anyone would chuck rotten tomatoes at me here, but if I'd expressed a similar POV over on the "other place", certain posters there would have gone off on one at me - and I'm a bit thin-skinned sometimes, lol!

I'm a Christian myself (as presumably most posters around here now know!) but I try to respect other peoples' spiritual paths (or lack thereof!). If I had children I would have liked them to receive a good grounding in all the major world faiths. I wouldn't necessarily choose to send them to a Christian school - it would depend on the children's needs, and on the schools in the area.

IMHO, everyone has the right to believe what they want - even the delightful Prof Dawkins!

Mandy

In my opinion schools should not be religious

If you go to school and you are at early age of development , the likehood is you will like the thing you've been pushed into


Let children decideced themselves whether they believe in god ,,, and if they do what flavour that god is

Seeing as the education is shit no matter what school the kids go to I guess it doesn't really matter.

quietgirl wrote:
Fixed

andyh wrote:
No that is wrong

dawnbreak wrote:
That it doesn't matter that we have faith schools in the US or that education sucks?

dubmeup wrote:
I see that we are entirely of the same opinion re "The Smug G*t Professor", dubs! But you are braver than I in your colourful use of language, lol!

Mandy

andyh wrote:

There is a place for schools and education .

I recall a post of yours over on 'the place that shall not be mentioned' where you were thinking about sending your children to Rudolph Steiner schools.

Did you enroll them there AndyH? Do your children attend a school or do you home educate?

genuinely interested

dawnbreak wrote:
Since the move its home educate now for the eldest, couldn't even get him enrolled...
The youngest go to an 'educate together' school, they're new in Ireland. Basically they're not church backed and multi race etc.
www.educatetogether.ie/about/what-is-educate-together

Sure there's a 'place' for them if you want to call it that, I'm not impressed tbh.