holiday homes are plain wrong imho - particularly when people are homeless or unable to afford a home

There is a conspiracy but it is a conspiracy of the mind.

There are many terms for that, Archon, evil, negative energy and all these are justified.

The conspiracy movement has become like a spy novel you have to find the bad guy at the end of the book, that way it makes you feel better, you have the key, the who done it, so then you can tell everyone that you've worked it out. Then of course you'll have someone come up an challenge your theory on who the villain was and all the while the system just keeps rolling on because the system it's self is based on fear. It is a conspiracy of the mind.

There are many tools used by so called truth research's to gain their niche market. I think everyone knows what they are, so no need for me to rabbit on about it.

The one person who has real credibility is Max Igan. Max Igan has done all the research and come to the realization that the world will never change if everyone just keeps on bickering about, the who done it.

It's about getting out there and making a change and holding people accountable, we must hold the government accountable for their actions. We have a trust agreement with government and they aren't holding up their part of the bargain because we dont hold them accountable, so they get away with it. Corporations are insidious by nature when a corporation lobbies a government they do so on the premise of boosting the economy and creating jobs for US, the PEOPLE. it is not the case of course for they are doing it for the profit and for their shareholders who are people too. I dont think people realize that your local council, or state government's are corporations also.

Excellent threadage dubs.

I have nothing of any intelligence to add, other than that I agree with what T said about the issue being with 'us' rather than with any form of government/organisation/societal 'type'.

We have probably lived in every conceivable way over the years. What we have at present, to my mind, stems very much from living in a world where there is still such a thing as Monarchy. Again, as has been pointed out, those people didn't just arrive there (despite what they might try and have you believe). Be they an actual Monarch, or a politician, those people are there, either because we have voted for them or because we haven't said anything about them being there as a right of birth, for example.

It would appear that the nature of 'us' is to have someone in control; a figurehead, if you will. Time and again we seem to repeat this pattern of behaviour, more often than not to our own detriment, imo. Figureheads are particularly comforting in times of hardship, war and strife. Were we to evolve, as has also been suggested, to not have things such as hardship, war and strife in our vocabulary, then doubtless the figureheads would fall quite naturally over time.

As it is, they're there because we let them be. They are there because we need them, or at least, think that we need them. It could be argued that they are well aware of this and that this is where some of our modern day 'theories' come into play, but that's probably another thread altogether.

To my mind, the system won't be changing anytime soon. Even if it does abate, it will return, such is the nature of this existence. I know that's probably not of great comfort to many, but that is how I see things. I agree that the only way to subvert said system is to remove yourself from it; not an easy task, unfortunately. But doable, as some of you are proving in your own ways.

Again, for me at least it is not 'them' and 'us' but purely 'us'. As ever it was.

Thanks for your considered input Boots

I get your analogy of the spy novel. I see it similarly as some kind of intellectual/ego exercise. No problem with that as long as you know that's basically all it is.

Those that have contributed to this thread so far have all come at it from different angles which is excellent.
I will of course stand by my assertion that the system of currency needs to be consigned to history but am in agreement with the other viewpoints raised also. Thor is right, we are ultimately to blame. You are right, IF we are to have elected officials etc, they need to be held accountable to the people. This is not what we see and as long as we support this we have no grounds for complaint.
Even RealAmerican has pointed out a worthy observation that the things we are talking of are nothing new....
My motivation is to stimulate the debate on steps we can actually take to move things forward for the betterment of all.

On the subject of holding officials accountable, that's where I'm at with the Hague stuff. I'm going to make the next report to the police either tomorrow or tuesday. I hope to post a list of key points that others can use to similarly make that call. The more that do the better. I'm also hoping to post those points on a youtube video to try and encourage others to do so.

It looks like I am going to have a busy week

Thanks for your considered and constructive input Abs
You hit upon some excellent points. We do think we need these systems. It is "us". We as a race are on the whole like a bunch of kids. We are immature and we look to others who we perceive to be our betters to provide us with solutions. It really is time for the vast majority of humanity to grow up and take some responsibility for what we've created/allowed.

The "system" which is very much part of the problem won't be changing of it's own volition, you're quite right. What it will do is what we see it doing, enabling things we would never consciously wish for. This is why we have to face it. I'm not suggesting that we have to run to the hills and go Grizzly Adams, rather that we take steps towards alternatives, do more to encourage community, do more to provide for ourselves without it and as Boots said do more to make the representatives of the system accountable to us. Stuff like that

Its probably impossible to ever see an RBE system without some large scale research and experimentation thats going to involve a lot of initial money for research ironically enough

There are of course things that could lead towards such an end goal, time banking, local co-ops, bartering (abandoning the idea of legal tender which is really just bullying and brainwashing people into using their money).

I do not envisage such a solution ever coming from govt or trying to change govt.

I also believe that time is short for such a thing as digital money is only around the corner now. Its pessimistic I know but its also realistic given whats happened and is indeed happening right now.

Thanks for your considered and constructive input andy

It's quite possibly too late in the day for a massive RBE experiment to test things and try to show the possibilities to the "masses".
I'm personally thinking more along the lines of our absent friend, the apprentice. That this is something which starts with us as individuals, families, friends and communities. In some ways the sort of thing KOTG would love
But seriously I really do mean it, we ALL have the chance to do something. Giving energy to our communities is always a possibility.

Of course we can all see the looming digital economy, this is another great motivation for the sorts of things I'm suggesting here. Do stuff for free

The trouble with the conspiracy/truth movement is that it singles it's self out from the rest of society. People use the term sheeple, which is really derogatory, that automatically sets up a US and THEM mentality. How can anyone who is caught in the belief that those in power are there for the good of us all, look at this community as anything but 'Conspiracy Nutjobs'.

Another thing that bugs me is why the upper class have to have a 30 room mansion.

The class structure is one aspect of perpetuating the system and it is based on the fear of never having enough because of impending doom.

thoreau wrote:
I was thinking that the other day.

Boots wrote:
I stayed in one this year; right on the sea, it was. It was lovely, but the people that own it are arseholes. Personalised number plates and all that.

The irony is, I could never actually afford to own a property like that and yet, had I not known a friend of a friend who owned the place, I probably would have had to have paid a months salary just to kip there for the weekend.

Anyway...I digress. As you were.

Boots wrote: Absobloodylutley. It's a disgrace. A sham of a mockery of a sham.
What possible solution is anyone that refers to others as "sheeple" offering? Where is the love in that? Where is the empathy?
It's the pot calling the kettle black. Only worse.

dubmeup wrote:
Too right, which makes me wonder why icke for instance dumps on a petition site trying to bring the bankers in the LIBOR scandal to court, because he believed it was run by jews.

I sign a lot of petitions from different organizations, as my way of getting a voice out there and making a difference, have to use discernment on some issues. The recent push to bring in tighter privacy laws was squashed because people signed petitions and governments had to drop that, it worked, it made a difference because people stood up for themselves.

I would agree that signing petitions you feel support for is almost a duty.
I will stand no truck with arguments like "it won't make any difference" any more. I used to be of that opinion. I'm prepared to accept that I was wrong

Boots wrote:
this ^^

when i first started posting on ickes it was something that made me feel really uneasy - as if it were a 'them and us' situation - which in turn goes back to my it is 'us' that need to change.

reading the way that fellow humans are talked about on conspiracy forums i have frequented is soul destroying - in one breath there will be something about how the 'elites' do not see the populace as humans just as work ponies and something about 'elites' lacking empathy - and in the next breath there will be a statement about how anyone who disagrees is a sheeple and useless and not worth conversing with - two sides of the same coin.

it is like the accusation of shill or whatever - it means nothing other then that the person making the accusation disagrees with what is being said and wishes to dismiss it rather then address it)

i am rather cynical of conspiracy now as it seems everyone has something to sell - whether it be books, tshirts, dvd's, get out of jail free cards or boosting their sons music career - myself i have and always do prefer community led grass roots type stuff which is not so entrenched in dogma but instead concerns itself with practical as well as theoretical and philosophical discussion.

dubmeup wrote:
Heh, well he actually wanted just himself and his harem left trading with each other remember?
Jesus he was one real whacko...

Please.........andy............don't encourage me to revisit those engrams

dubmeup wrote:
Government doesn't have to drop something because of a petition unless its Switzerland

I don't see the govt doing a lot of things that much larger petitions and gripes people have had about other issues.
The EU for example.

If a govt abandons doing something then it's because the guys at the top want that, its got nothing to do with the electorate.
If you held a gun to their heads then it might be different.

andyh wrote:
Enough to stand out as mental in that menagerie of madness

dubmeup wrote:
lol
Some of it was just class..I thought for a moment...just a moment, that he might agree with me about a small local economy and then he says no, trading with a village is too large.....I mean just what the fuck goes through this guys head?

andyh wrote:
Absolutely. I'm not suggesting that Gov will react to petitions favourably but I still see them as a valid way of lodging opinion.