Great topic dubmeup.

I got into politics before I got into "conspiracy politics". Whilst I was obsessed with 9/11 I had friends who would be talking about issues like say for example the war. The war was a real thing we knew about and a real thing we could argue against and protest and perhaps stop(although looking back I guess that was one train with no emergency brakes).

I see politics as being a big part of everything I do. I go to a grocery store and firstly I do not go to Walmart. Secondly I do not buy Coke products. I try to buy organic fair trade etc. I also try to shop farmer`s markets. I see everything I do as a member of planet earth. I tend to ignore the conspiracy theory that all the environmentally friendly talk is about money. I figure it is better to buy from a small independent company than from a huge one. I do sign petitions and things like that and I do feel that I am not really making much impact. I try to be a citizen of the world and encourage other people to do things that I think are important. The world is still messed up but hopefully I do a little to make it better.

I see conspiracy theories the same way as I see sports or soap operas on t.v. There might be a political aspect to them of course but I was against Bush already before 9/11. I lived in England then so it was not directly effecting me. I see the point made that we are the elephant but the current system was not set up by anybody recently. It has been in place and evolving for some time. I think many people within the system do not like it but it is tough to know how to change it. So we are the problem or part of the problem but as long as we fight we can perhaps change the system in some ways.

Talking about JFK for me is like stamp collecting. It is a subject I try my best to figure out. I also try not to ever claim to have the answer because that just seems presumptuous. As the post I made recently mentioned balance is the important thing and indeed I think thoreau responded by saying something like "that is not all that I am" or something along those lines. It is important to not lose touch with other things. Sorry by the way to thoreau as I was trying to remember what you said as I feel you hit it on the head but I fear I ruined the sentiment by wording it wrongly.

Thanks for your considered and constructive input i-baster

Fair shout for realising that we have to look at this whole issue holistically. That every choice we make is important. It's pretty much unavoidable for most that we have to interact with the elephant in our daily lives. Therefore choosing, as much as we can, how we do so is crucial. Not only for ourselves but for everyone else too. The little things are as important as the big things.

Under the current paradigm, when we go to buy food, invariably the shite corporate stuff is cheaper than the good wholesome local stuff. This understandably makes it harder for the majority to avoid the shite. I say that ANY time we can source local Organic food instead of the corporate alternative is worthy. We shouldn't be flogging our backs for not being able to 100% free ourselves of the shite, rather take whatever measures we can. Even having a few beansprouts on a window sill is a big step in the right direction

Boots wrote:
This is the real problem...

www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2011/03...-worlds-richest-man/

^For instance if Mexico is such a poor country why does this guy need $74 billion dollars?

RealAmerican wrote:
Is he jewish?

roflmfao!

I have conclusive proof that He is a Jesuit Rothschild Vatican Emissary from the lower 4th dimension.

Tbh though thanks RA, characters like Slim illustrate my view nicely. What could he "buy" that you or I couldn't if the system of Commerce/currency was grown out of?

dubmeup wrote:
There are definitely steps we should and could take, dubs. I agree.

I also agree, despite as much as some may protest about it, that rank, processed crap is generally MUCH cheaper than the good stuff. You may have the odd occasion where you deal with the producer directly, but this is few and far between. Someone recently advised me to go to a farmer's market. I've been to several, and although the produce looked delicious, it was way out of my price-range for the most part.

Similarly, my local butcher, the only decent one for several miles, has had to adapt (or diversify) because of the competition from chain-stores and is now a 'quality/fine food specialist'. You may have seen my rant about five chops for £10.00...

And this is the trap we find ourselves in, as you say, completely of 'our' own making for letting the fekkers get away with it for so long, probably.

Most people are clueless to this though, and will go for the cheaper option as default. Myself, even knowing something about what is going, often had to scrape the barrel just to get by, so it doesn't really even depend on knowledge of the situation tbh.

Local communities trading to each other and shifting any surplus might be a good start, but it would require participation from more than just a few, I suppose. Therein lies the problem?

Grow your own. I know England and USA are different but it is still possible to grow food in England. I know people on both sides of the pond who have animals. Chickens for eggs etc. I don`t like eggs but just saying. Small things are like ripples in the ocean you know.

G'day Dubmeup.

Good thread topic mate.

I've been reading along and have meant to contribute a post, though obviously I haven't done so until now. I'll more than likely add some of my own thoughts to the thread later, though I thought I'd add this documentary that a friend recommended to me as it deals with some of the issues that have been raised on this thread by yourself and others.

so .....


When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1990, Cuba's economy went into a tailspin. With imports of oil cut by more than half – and food by 80 percent – people were desperate. This film tells of the hardships and struggles as well as the community and creativity of the Cuban people during this difficult time. Cubans share how they transitioned from a highly mechanized, industrial agricultural system to one using organic methods of farming and local, urban gardens. It is an unusual look into the Cuban culture during this economic crisis, which they call "The Special Period." The film opens with a short history of Peak Oil, a term for the time in our history when world oil production will reach its all-time peak and begin to decline forever. Cuba, the only country that has faced such a crisis – the massive reduction of fossil fuels – is an example of options and hope.

Website:
www.powerofcommunity.org/cm/index.php

Thanks for posting that video IAAIA, I now thoroughly recommend it to everyone

dubmeup wrote:
G'day Dubmeup.

You're welcome.

I just finished watching it mate. It's definitely one that I will be keeping and adding to the collection on the external drive. I highly recommend watching it to everyone.

"It's not the technology, it's the human relationships."

The above quote was one of the stand outs to me (among many others). The way in which the community based lifestyle was embraced shows that many people that have been reliant upon the industrilised infrastructure of society can and will come together for the benefit of all.

Who's moving to Cuba ?

dubmeup wrote:
The problem is the majority of the western world do NOT share the same views as us.

Or we would have grown away from currency long ago.

RealAmerican wrote:
G'day RealAmerican.

A few questions ...

1. How do you actually know what "the majority of the western world" thinks ? Have you spoken to "the majority of the western world" ?

2. Why are you concerned whether others share the same view as you do ?

3. Is there some way that what another thinks that stops you from being involved in community based projects that are beneficial in freeing yourself (and others) from the societal structure that is in place ?

RealAmerican wrote:
I'll echo IAAIA's thoughts here RA. Again at the risk of creating a strawman, I feel you are looking for some defining moment where the lights go out on the old system and go on for a new one. For a majority to stand up and demand a new way of doing things from leadership.
As I'm trying to say here, I think such a hope/prerequisite for change is futile. I am advocating that each and every one of us can take our own steps off our own backs. "Be the change" may be overused but it has profound truth in it.
It's something that comes from within and spreads out from there.

The person next to you at the window might not see things the same way as you but the view is essentially the same for you both. I think the important thing is to let them see what they see and perhaps even try to see that too. Understanding different views is partly why I enjoy coming to forums like this. I see all these views being pushed. People telling me what to see whether it be the mainstream media or the alternative media. I try to take it all in and throw it all out and repeat that process to see what I feel is the truth. I try not to let that be anything too dangerous. So I don`t say THIS IS IT and mess it all up.

Does that make sense?

You're making perfect sense i-baster. You're right that dealing in absolutes and stating things as cold hard facts in denial of other views would be unwise at best. I can see why you would wish to avoid the word IS with that in mind.

But, I'll say this.

In my opinion, it IS a fact that if we rely on change coming from 'above' we'll be waiting a very very long time.
In my opinion, it IS perfectly possible for each and every one of us to take steps that begin to free us from our bonds to the elephant (the elephant I referenced in the OP).

I'd even go so far as removing the "in my opinion" bits

I've just got back from a little mission into the village (Tbh it's more like a very small town).
I went into the little garden centre shop and they are 100% behind the idea of starting to fill the village with veg. I paid a visit to the chap that runs the holistic healing place who is a parish councillor and he is 100% behind the idea. As is the lady that runs the apple group that installed the apple press. All of them have offered to help . I'm on holiday next week but have arranged for us to meet in the local hippy pub when I get back and put our heads together.
Knowing the village, this WILL take off. My hope is to then broaden it out into a group that are willing to offer their time and efforts for free to do odd jobs and stuff and just generally try to bypass the system of currency as much as possible. Those I've spoke to are behind that idea too
So If a dickhead like me can get something like this started, so can everyone else. Get out there and talk to your communities folks

G'day Dubmeup.

Good one mate.

You are doing more for the world than all of the conspiraguru's put together.

RealAmerican wrote:
I'm watching this HBO doc movie about Mexico right now thinking to myself thinking WTF....

andyh wrote:
Actually no, he's Lebanese.