Hopefully that title grabbed your attention

As a preface to this thread I would like to state that this OP is merely my opinion. It is one based on several years of reading, involvement in forums, speculation, research and letting my own consciousness wander. Anything I say here is not inspired by or directed at any one or any group of people....

It would be fair to state that the 'world' we live in is dysfunctional. As a race we are careering headlong into a dystopia of epic proportions.
Many have come and are coming to realise this. Many have seen and are seeing events unfold that lead them to question what is really behind those events.
Many then find themselves involved with what has come to be known as "conspiracy theorising". The internet has numerous "hubs" for this kind of thing and there are a plethora of individual conspiracies and theories to draw the attention.
Is it the Rothchilds? The Zionists as a whole? The Vatican? An ancient set of bloodlines? Extra terrestrial intervention? Etc etc.
Each theory has it's proponents and it's detractors. In my experience this tends to lead to an apparently never ending going over of minutiae, heels being dug in, ill feeling and very little actual real world action.

So, I say this. Perhaps take up a view that ALL these theories are in fact true. Give up trying to prove or debunk them.

Why?

Because there is a very very big elephant in the room. That elephant is the real "enemy". It is the system which allows ALL of these conspiracies to be born, nurtured and released. It's the enabler and motivator of the inadequacies in education systems, the root cause of wars, famine and oppression. Without it, none of these things would exist. There would be no need of them.

No answer will ever put an end to the injustices and wrongs of the human world until this elephant is faced, understood and dealt with. By discussing the fleas that crawl about on it's back as we do we are missing the point altogether.

Commerce. The system that enables all that is wrong with our world. The system behind the whole darn lot of it.
I'm really not joking.............Stop wasting your time with conspiracies and start taking action to get rid of the elephant
Please discuss

You definitely had the same milkman in your town too didn't you?

I can understand why some focus on the proverbial fleas. Once consciously observing said elephant, I would imagine it can become quite daunting. Focusing on the little things may be some way of attempting to salvage what little courage may be contained within the ego. It may give a feeling of having done something, "I've done what I can for one person." I can see how you've come to the conclusion you have, Dub. Heels have indeed been dug in, and I would even go as far as to say that a circular rut has been actively used for some time as well.

A lot of the theorists and researchers seem to have fallen into the same rut, and figured they may as well make some money in a niche market if it isn't going to go anywhere. It seems as if some of them have become a little too comfy, and are starting to maintain the statuesque too.

I guess my questions at this point are this... What do we do with the proverbial elephant? What of the others who are fearful of change needed? What will it take for them to realize that there are better, more humanitarian, more ecological, and more efficient options? It's evident that the systems do not work. It's my opinion that they served their purpose for a brief point in our development, but are no longer relevant or prudent. They were never designed to be utilized for this long, hence the obvious loopholes being utilized by people of affluence and influence.

I tried to put forward most of the points in the OP in my book, so I naturally agree, particularly with the following:
I often think the position of the Rockefellers is underestimated, considering they were instrumental in the setting up of the TLC and CFR and David Rockefeller has some sort of advisory position for Bilderberg and attends every meeting.

But even if you could prove 100% that the Rothschilds were at the centre of the 'conspiracy' (I don't like to use the word 'conspiracy', as I don't believe the world is generally run by conspiracy), what good does it do? What are you going to do - go round their house, knock on the door and ask them to stop?

There are five productive questions that need to be asked and answered:

(1) What is the nature of the socio-economic system I'm living in?
(2) What constraints does it place upon the individual?
(3) How does it place these constraints upon the individual?
(4) What direction will this socio-economic system take in the future?
(5) What steps can we take in our own lives to make a difference?

Thanks for a considered and constructive response
Mrindigo wrote:
My view is that we start from us and work outward. Taking personal steps to move away from reliance on the elephant. Those steps will depend on the individual's starting position of course. We also need to rekindle the notion of community. There are thankfully already large numbers of people involving themselves in local community activity. Anything we can do in that regard is worthy. Guerilla gardening, swap schemes, offering our labour to help others etc. In my view if we can start to spread such commerce free notions of co-operation and community, those who are perhaps fearful will come to see that it is possible and preferable. In this respect Agenda 21 has something right . The part about local communities working together towards a sustainable future is spot on .

I was talking to a smallholder the other day and as we chatted we both started to think that perhaps the "global economic crisis" may well turn out to be a very big own goal on the part of the elephant.
Why?
Because we are both seeing a slight upturn in the amount of people who are thinking and acting along lines that are removed from the elephant's grasp. When people have less cash in their pocket in combination with inflation, they are actually pushed toward finding alternatives. Those alternatives being ones that don't involve the elephant.

Again, thank you for a considered and constructive response

Yes, I think once you've considered those questions you are very much in a position where you can see the elephant and start to think about how we might work together to usher it out of the room. Good skills

dubmeup wrote:
I like the idea of rekindling community connections. That notion has several benefits, as you've gone over, Dub. I think one of the biggest may be people learning how to be human again. A lot of people have turned off emotion/empathy and disassociated themselves from things they think don't immediately effect them. The backyard has grown substantially larger since the advent of the combustion engine, so that 'all for me' mentality doesn't work anymore. Many seem to take on predefined cookie cutter personas approved by pop-culture marketing strategists. Stepping away from that might be eye-opening for many. Granted I'm younger than some of the user base here, but it's my understanding that it wasn't like this 40-50 years ago. When being genuinely social was shelved, things began to go down hill it seems. I'll do my bit, and help where it's desired/needed.

I like the way you put it. I agree, this global recession is indeed forcing people to reevaluate the way they go about life. They're starting to see that the elephant is in a very confined room, on a small sinking boat, in the middle of a large lake. It's time to hop off. It won't be an easy endeavor as we swim to shore, but we'll make it. We've been through worse as a species... you know that little thing called the ice age.

I do so like the way you put things Indy

Here's one thing I am going to do starting this week.
I live near a village that already has a good community spirit. Not long a go people clubbed together to get a communal apple press put in the village. Anyone can bring their fruit in and press it for juice or cider making.
I have pretty good relations with a couple of the parish councillors, one of whom is also a regular on the community radio station .
I'm going to offer to start a project for those of us that can raise a few food plants to do so and then plant them around the village. There's a rising tide of such activity, I believe our own angelchemuel is doing something similar where she lives. The fruits of our efforts will then be free for all to enjoy.

Dubmeup you already made a thread for Max Igan (Globalism by Distraction)

I don't think changing the "system of com­merce" is very realistic because so many people enjoy it...

If the majority of people wanted it changed they would all move to the 3rd world and start there own communities.

I agree with you Dubmeup and I think Max Igan is right about com­merce but lets be realistic here.

nice thread

i disagree that commerce is the elephant in the room though it is indeed a mahoosive issue - for me the elephant in the room is that which is behind commerce - that which i believe is the real enabler - us.

the very nature of humans means that no matter what system we have in place someone will exploit it. no matter how plentiful resources someone will always think they deserve more. no matter what sort of community there will always be one or two to fuck up the equilibrium.

things always work well when those working on a solution all want the same thing and are prepared to be responsible and moderate themselves for the 'greater good' as it were - as soon as you get one person who no longer wants or is able to do that shit hits the fan and divisions will occur.

i truly feel that 'we' are the elephant in the room 'we' are the problem that needs addressing - unfortunately i have no idea how any meaningful change can come about - enforced change imho is no change at all and whilst those in power continue to have the means to enforce their system upon people those attempting to opt out are stymied in doing so.

RealAmerican wrote:
Yes, my motivation for posting Igan's talk on the subject is the same as that which led to this thread
It's another attempt at something I've been saying on tinterwebz for a long time now in common with others. You could look at the money thread I started here as another attempt
Chatting on tinterwebz about who put the ammo in the gun that killed JFK will get us nowhere. The whole time we are doing that we are walking blind into dystopia thinking we are clever for seeing conspiracies. Sorry everyone but them's the facts.
It's the exact thing that the elephant would like those who are starting to question to do
Not so much controlled opposition as no opposition at all.
At this stage I don't see the need for a majority to walk away from commerce, I see a need for a grass roots spreading of efforts towards an alternative. The more that do so the better. It's something that has to be grown organically, who knows if enough try it may even become that majority.....
One thing is for sure, chatting about which flea on the elephant's back faked the moon landing won't get us anywhere...

thoreau wrote:
Prove it!

No seriously, I do agree, we created the monstrous enabling commerce elephant. We feed it and we mistakenly think it's benevolent. We are willfully blind to it. Yes, ultimately we are in need of nothing short of an evolution of humanity
Thing is, I think that when we honestly consider our true feelings, we really all want similar things. For our loved ones to have nice lives, for there not to be suffering etc. We already have everything we need to make the evolution. It is our reliance on this behemoth that is the major stumbling block. It feeds the fears, the divisions, the competitiveness and all the dark clowns that conspire to enslave us. Changing that reliance, WILL bring about the evolution imho.

dubmeup wrote:
This has already been going on all over America since the hippies in the 60's...

There is really nothing else I can say...

There's plenty more you could say RA
Forgive me but that comes across as very defeatist. At the risk of creating a strawman it sounds as if your view is others have tried and it didn't change the world so why bother?
That's not really in line with the OP though. The OP is designed to point out that al this conspiracy stuff is ultimately self defeating. That it doesn't address anything or provide any possible solutions.
I'm currently in the process of attempting to get Hague arrested, with verifiable facts. Will he be arrested? No. Will my efforts have changed anything? No. So why bother? A very good question. My effort there isn't a conspiracy theory, it pertains to a crime with verifiable evidence rather than speculation and even that will change nothing. Do you see what I'm getting at?

dubmeup wrote:
i really wish i could agree with the bolded part - every fiber of my being wishes to trust in humanity to be able to moderate themselves and take only what they need to be comfortable - but the cynic in me just does not think we have evolved enough yet.

having said that the small things that we can all do to at least show there is a different path can only be a good thing - i am a firm believer in being the change and the whole 'pay it forward' whatsit - for me that is the start and way forward - not wasting time trying to place blame - focusing on making me a nicer person and doing unto others etc.

thoreau wrote:
That's pretty much the hub of it right there. Doing so might not make the 'world' an ultimately better place but one thing is for sure, NOT doing so will guarantee that it gets shitter and shitter.

a weeny example i can think of off the top of my head that is pertinent to me right now is with my crafts - i sell them for the smallest amount i can - the other half supports me in this mindset but other people in my life think i am crazy and should try and get the highest possible price i can for it.

i try and balance my prices so that those who are reliant on doing the same as me for their livelihood do not find that the work is devalued but also so that the prices are fair and people who do not have a lot of spare money to spend can afford to treat themselves. i also take part in things like crochet drives where crafts people make blankets mittens and hats for free and they are donated to hospitals and hospices etc.

extra eggs, logs/kindling and homegrown foodstuffs are offered on a pay what you can afford basis put out at the end of the drive with a sign saying take what you want and donate what you can - this is something quite normal in the southwest which i value highly.

If i had done that where i used to live the whole lot would be stolen within minutes and being sold on - or the whole lot would have been vandalised.

infact moving from the south east to the southwest has taught me a great deal about community and stuff - i absolutely love it here. the mindset is completely different. though it also has its negative points as it is rather insular.

Insular? Us? Hahahahaha

dubmeup wrote:
i can honestly say i have actually heard people being refered to as 'not from round ere' even after living in the village for 25+ years. the sense of community is immensely awesome though somewhat fubar'd by the second home brigade.

thoreau wrote: Aye, I'll put my hands up and say that in the village I grew up in you weren't considered a local till you'd been there for 13 years The second home brigade are certainly a massively bad phenomenon for the South West. Still, it's not as bad as Pembrokeshire in South Wales. There are villages there were they are literally ghost towns in winter with only a few year round dwellers. It's an absolute disgrace that this was allowed to happen.