What do you folks think of this?

Here's to God!

I spent a few depressing months as the maintenance chap of a place called Clouds House in Wiltshire. It's a drug and alcohol rehabilitation centre of some renown. It uses a 12 step method as a core method of treatment. The process involves literally taking the individual apart and using the 12 steps to reprogram them. The 12 steps of Clouds house do not read identically to the ones given by SB but work on very similar lines.

Incidentally one of the patients back then was one Robbie Williams. He passed through not long before I started. He cleaned up and then went on to rebuild a career off the back of the track Angels. Listen to the lyrics of that track and it's basically 12 step programming........

My view of the 12 step approach? It can and does get people off of drugs and drink. At what cost though? I've seen with my own eyes the cost and it's not one I think worth paying. It claims to be empowering but ultimately relies on giving away personal power to some higher, external force. It's a hard line control system.

And what's worse is.......it gave the world Robbie Williams as a solo artist and spawned that hideous track Angels...

dubmeup wrote:
About £13k for The Priory. I've seen 2 good friends go through it and come out the other side far better off.....
it is a hardline approach, but the people I know have used it to purely rid them of anything that's been causing themselves and those around them harm, while still retaining the odd 'treat' for themselves (but obviously not alcohol).
As for giving away some part of yourself to an external higher force, it does say 'God as we understood Him'. It's not necessarily a religious view imo, perhaps could be interpreted that the higher power is itself nature. - obviously it depends on the individual view of what such higher power is.
If at the end of it, the individual has turned their life around as they desired since they admitted they needed help, that can only be a positive thing even if it does replace it with what could be seen as either disempowering part of yourself, or filling a mind full of false beliefs. A large part of it seems to revolve around 'faith'. Yet neither of the two punters I know who've been through it have any belief in God as such.
As for the celebs that go in there - it's full of them, constantly. I'm not naming names, they're just very lucky that they can afford to have a treatment that seems to often be successful.
It's still not something I can fully get my head around though, but I was talking at length with one of these friends about it yesterday so I thought it worthy of mention.

I have a family member I'd recommeded Alocholics Anymous to, then more the more I looked into it the I think I made a mistake by suggesting it.

The orange papers appears to contain some really worrying information and whilst I appreciate it may in fact help certainly help some people many more are harmed by it

I do think there is perhaps some more effective support out there now

dawnbreak wrote:
Can I ask what these orange papers are?

I'll try and find the link for you SpaceBandit............it's a lot of people talking about AA

dawnbreak wrote:
I'm still Space Bandit.... but cheers.

well that was embaressing ........you avator looked like starshines...........my apologies to get you confused


www.orange-papers.org/

are you enquiring for yourself or for a family member or friend ? There are many more helpful organisations then AA

dawnbreak wrote:
There is better support out there Dawn, its called a bar

dawnbreak wrote:
Does that Orange Papers jobbie seem a bit Masonic to you? Not saying it's a bad thing, but definitely some funky Western Mysticism shit going on with the whole AA thing.

In all fairness though, I have seen it help people turn their lives around and did actually save their lives.

oioioi wrote:
You are always a good one for many forms of humour.

I think your avatar would look better with no socks...that way, we can see how short your trousers really are.

yes i would agree .......giving up your power to a higher entity ................very masonic/satanic or just controlling

In fact, I knew someone who joined AA and a mate of mine who is a Mason and Rosicrucian suggested that they pursued these lines of study as AA was essentially based on the same principles. I shit you not.

I have heard that too Lesley , and when I attended a group at Cruise, 10 out the ten out the twelve people who had committed suicide attended AA , which personally does not give myself much confidence in that group.

there were only 2 of us attending that had partners who had commited suicide that weren't members of AA.........and personally that felt like a really really high number and something was going wrong somewhere with that organisation

dawnbreak wrote:
Thanks, I'll have a scan thru some of that - though it does look quite lengthy & a little bitter for some reason, whilst also repeating some of the advice from the 12 steps yet suggesting it's coming from a more critical angle.

Just curious really - no personal agenda behind it. I'll forgive you this once, hen.

No don't call me hen.............i hate people calling me hen

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
Surely it'd be the 13 steps then... or 33...