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TOPIC: putting the world to right.

Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 21:48 #61

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dawnbreak wrote:
well that sounds

a) a bit defeatist

or

b) you think your a smarter than the average bear

and c) to quote you 'even­tu­ally a genetic dif­fer­ence between rich and poor, the rich will become a new species'

So people are poor or rich due to genetics?

I've been mentioning this for quite some time Dawn.
The genetics is going to be an aspect of transhumanism. The rich will augment themselves (because they will have the money and power to do so) and they will poison us (to retain that position of power they have).

People are not poor or rich due to genetics but that will be the case in the future. Hope thats clearer now :)

What you have to understand is that the elite have always been living with the threat of revolt and for us to change radically.
In such a situation their kind would never surface again, their way of life would be gone forever.
You see..trading things to survive is actually not the way it has to be. We don't actually need money, we never did.
What we need is to wake the hell up and realise what we are capable of given numbers, some brainpower and resources.
Money does not make food appear on your plate, only effort and human ingenuity did it, the same applies for everything.
Money is what keeps us separated by competing with each other, this is basically divide and conquer played out at large and the rich hold all the chips. Ultimately the rich are afraid of what technology can bring to the people, the very technology thats lets people communicate scary ideas like the very ones I'm typing here ;)

Previously you could keep the vast majority of people in ignorance by utilizing the accepted educational/religious and more recently the media system which is nothing more than a modern offshoot of 'reliducation' < new word of mine lol.

Just recently though the elite are losing their grip on society, they know it ofc, just as Brezhinsky talked of a 'vast political awakening' quite some time ago. The political awakening he is referring to is not some massive bunch of people all of a sudden voting democrat instead of republican lol.
What he is referring to is a hell of a lot of people awakening to libertarian values and understanding what money actually is at its core.
The elite see money as a tool, the poor see it as their very life support system.

Is it defeatist? Yes perhaps, but I prefer to call it realistic tbh. The race is on now to keep that position of power and supremacy for themselves before we wake up to it and prevent it from happening.

There are several key points that I see must be accomplished for them to retain dominance.

1) Regulation and control of the internet (happening right now)
2) Regulation and control of the entire worlds monetary supply (been happening for ages...ALMOST complete now)
3) Destruction of the family unit (almost complete now)
4) Distraction of people via consumerism, instant gratification and cheap thrills (already very well accomplished)
5) A merger of all world states to use a similar social system as the EU.
6) Make decent food very difficult and expensive to obtain, remove all normal seedstocks and replace with terminator GM seeds for general use of the populus. Poison food with additives that make people fat.
7) Make good clean water very difficult to obtain for the masses (fluoridation and ability to turn off at whim and charge money for it)
8) Introduce heavy taxation to enslave people with the idea that its all for their own good (healthcare etc)
9) Sterilise the population and wait for numbers to rapidly dwindle later (by the time people realise, if at all!, it will be too late)
10) Breed people in test tubes with varying levels of intelligence suited to tasks required (brave new world), announce breeding program to be for the betterment and continuance of mankind.

11) Enjoy your total pwnership of the planet.
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 21:53 #62

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oioioi wrote:
Personally I don't see how any form of currency could not lead to greed due to, as dogsmilk(wb) pointed out, the need to change the mindset. If the will was there we have the means to build an infrastructure that could monitor the global populations needs then all the global population has to do is focus on these needs as a collective. We'd be 'working' 10 hour weeks before you know it.

Yep this is it IMHO.
We need to know what resources we have and how best to distribute them.
We need to worry less about just surviving and concentrate more on thriving.
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 21:59 #63

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so to you live outside the grid and don't use money?
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 21:59 #64

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errrrrrrrrrrrm no people are not
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:01 #65

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oioioi wrote:
Personally I don't see how any form of currency could not lead to greed due to, as dogsmilk(wb) pointed out, the need to change the mindset. If the will was there we have the means to build an infrastructure that could monitor the global populations needs then all the global population has to do is focus on these needs as a collective. We'd be 'working' 10 hour weeks before you know it.
It's all achievable now with the excess imo, we just need to overthrow the dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:02 #66

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dawnbreak wrote:
so to you live outside the grid and don't use money?

That is an option for an individual or perhaps a small group. Its not a solution as such because you will still end up getting screwed over.

If you read brave new world you'll note near the end of the book that the elite kept a 'zoo reserve' as a curiosity to examine the 'creatures' that were left who did do just that...
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:03 #67

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dawnbreak wrote:
errrrrrrrrrrrm no people are not

Not what?
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:04 #68

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Guevarista wrote:
It's all achievable now... ...imo,

And mine. As I said, it needs a collective will though to free the collective. Which kinda covers dawns point, I can't make a life based on a collective effort only for myself, it's a bit contradictory.
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:05 #69

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Guevarista wrote:
It's all achievable now with the excess imo, we just need to overthrow the dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie.

You can have as many revolutions you could care to shake a stick at. What oi is talking about is evolution. Not revolution :)

You just delay or possibly even speed up the inevitable is all. Because those vying for change have not changed themselves.
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:09 #70

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The history of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries demonstrated, even before the war, what this celebrated “pure democracy” really is under capitalism. Marxists have always maintained that the more developed, the “purer” democracy is, the more naked, acute and merciless the class struggle becomes, and the “purer” the capitalist oppression and bourgeois dictatorship. The Dreyfus case in republican France, the massacre of strikers by hired bands armed by the capitalists in the free and democratic American republic—these and thousands of similar facts illustrate the truth which the bourgeoisie are vainly seeking to conceal, namely, that actually terror and bourgeois dictatorship prevail in the most democratic of republics and are openly displayed every time the exploiters think the power of capital is being shaken.…

In these circumstances, proletarian dictatorship is not only an absolutely legitimate means of overthrowing the exploiters and suppressing their resistance, but also absolutely necessary to the entire mass of working people, being their only defence against the bourgeois dictatorship which led to the war and is preparing new wars.

The main thing that socialists fail to understand and that constitutes their short-sightedness in matters of theory, their subservience to bourgeois prejudices and their political betrayal of the proletariat is that in capitalist society, whenever there is any serious aggravation of the class struggle intrinsic to that society, there can be no alternative but the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie or the dictatorship of the proletariat. Dreams of some third way are reactionary, petty-bourgeois lamentations. That is borne out by more than a century of development of bourgeois democracy and the working-class movement in all the advanced countries, and notably by the experience of the past five years. This is also borne out by the whole science of political economy, by the entire content of Marxism, which reveals the economic inevitability, wherever commodity economy prevails, of the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie that can only be replaced by the class which the very growth of capitalism develops, multiplies, welds together and strengthens, that is, the proletarian class.

—V.I. Lenin, “Theses and Report on Bourgeois Democracy and the Dictatorship
of the Proletariat” (March 1919)
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:11 #71

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I'd just like to clarify I am all for revolution if it advances evolution. :D
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:12 #72

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lol yeah Aldous Huxley book from 1932 that's made a difference hasn't it ?
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:13 #73

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Quoting Lenins not a good idea :)

He was a case in point that 'overthrowing' one dictator just lead to replacing him/her/them with another/others.

Marxism/Capitalism/Socialism etc always involves some leaders and involves some money.
Same old shit, different words for it.
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:15 #74

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dawnbreak wrote:
lol yeah Aldous Huxley book from 1932 that's made a difference hasn't it ?

It was a terribly written book, far below Huxleys ability (perhaps deliberately so?) and yet so much of it has been accurate, indeed far more so than Orwell for example.

The ironic thing is that the predictions I made way back on DIF have thus far proven eerily accurate :D
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:19 #75

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andyh wrote:
Quoting Lenins not a good idea :)

He was a case in point that 'overthrowing' one dictator just lead to replacing him/her/them with another/others.

Marxism/Capitalism/Socialism etc always involves some leaders and involves some money.
Same old shit, different words for it.
Don't your liberal sensibilities even allow you to read enough of it to form an actual critique?
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:21 #76

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who quoted Lenin?
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:23 #77

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Guevarista wrote:
andyh wrote:
Quoting Lenins not a good idea :)

He was a case in point that 'overthrowing' one dictator just lead to replacing him/her/them with another/others.

Marxism/Capitalism/Socialism etc always involves some leaders and involves some money.
Same old shit, different words for it.
Don't your liberal sensibilities even allow you to read enough of it to form an actual critique?

I've read Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto, found them both a bit tedious and lacking a sub-plot.
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:23 #78

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Lenin =Russian= nuclear war :O
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:24 #79

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Guevarista wrote:
andyh wrote:
Quoting Lenins not a good idea :)

He was a case in point that 'overthrowing' one dictator just lead to replacing him/her/them with another/others.

Marxism/Capitalism/Socialism etc always involves some leaders and involves some money.
Same old shit, different words for it.
Don't your liberal sensibilities even allow you to read enough of it to form an actual critique?

It IS an actual critique :)
Money = epic fail.
^Its as simple as that. The sooner people come to understand this the sooner they will EVOLVE as I mentioned above ;)

You can discuss how to make things better in the short term perhaps but at the end of the day I see the marxist solution as being the same as the hadaka jimmy solution.
You change nothing, you just replace one muppet with another and have an even bigger bunch of muppets carrying out the orders.

I believe in a world without money altogether, without religion, without government, without boundaries both physical and mental.
At the end of the day we all do, yet so many remain stuck with the paradigm.

Earlier you asked the question why people would refuse change that benefits them :D
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Re: putting the world to right. 08 Dec 2012 22:25 #80

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dawnbreak wrote:
who quoted Lenin?

Gue , post #70 .
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