Just a theory that Joseph Stalin was put in power by the church to punish the Russians for killing the royal family and trying to destroy the status quo.

From what little i know of Russian history Stalin sounds like he was a fascist.

What was his schooling?

I think you're right, he was infected by the religious meme virus.
The more accurately we recognize and observe the laws of history and class struggle, so much the more do we conform to dialectic materialism. The more insight we have into dialectic materialism, the greater will be our success.

J. Stalin

The more accurately we recognize and observe the laws of nature and life, . . . so much the more do we conform to the will of the Almighty. The more insight we have into the will of the Almighty, the greater will be our successes.

Martin Bormann

humanspirit wrote:
Ofc yep.
Pretty much the same thing happened to the basque people when they brought in Franco.

humanspirit wrote:
Very plausible
humanspirit wrote:
Jesuit

https://www.arcticbeacon.com/greg/headlines/josef-stalin-and-jesuit-fr-edmund-walsh-of-georgetown-connected-at-hip/

https://one-evil.org/content/people_20c_Stalin.html

very interesting links martg,didn't even know Mr steel had changed his name

Did you know Stalin wrote philosophy?

I'm going to do a critique of his Dialectical Materialism work in the next few weeks, it's quite interesting a read, a cursory knowledge of Marxism would be helpful but by all means join in with the critique we could share them here discuss the subject and maybe broaden it?
www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

The Roman Catholic Church or at least factions within it, have been quite prominent within politics all accross the spectrum, I think the tendency of Religious Left wing movements is to become highly authoritarian and underpinned by an ideological conviction commit all kinds of atrocities, even in the name of freedom, equality and justice etc.

I don't think they were as prominent in Russia as say Opus Dei is today, the Vatican in Europe or the Jesuits are in Liberation Theology in South America, but I do think Stalin had psychological and religious tendencies implanted in him from a young age, you get this with Hitler, Pol Pot, many many other manifestations of totalitarian evil, they were around Priests alot in their childhoods, I think it's interesting and relevant Hitler grew up or spent a few formative years living opposite a Benedictine monastery which had the Swastika icon on it's walls, in the case of most 20th century totalitarian rulers, their parent's or role models looked up to priests, were religious and in most accounts violent.

I think Vatican Assassins 3 is a vital book, I love it, read it a lot over the years, I don't agree with much of Phelps beliefs or even opinions but it's a great history in the Anti-Papist Protestant tradition, he speaks alot on the actual influence of important priests within the aforementioned dictatorships.

David Teacher's book Rogue Agents is about modern influence of the Vatican in Europe and also very well worth reading, especially since he released it for free on the internet

Give this a read Human:
sojournertruth.net/stalin.pdf

It's a Marxist critique of Stalinist Dialectics by somebody called Lance Hill?? and the best exposition of Stalin's theories I've read, you can see hints of his religious upbringing in the way he diverges from the Marxist Dialectic into his own interpretation/application of the concept:

________

Some other interesting quotes:
'Stalin is a Genghis Khan, an unscrupulous intriguer, who sacrifices everything else to the preservation of power ... He changes his theories according to whom he needs to get rid of next.'

Nikolai Bukharin,

"Every crime was possible to Stalin, for there was not one he had not committed. Whatever standards we use to take his measure, in any event — let us hope for all time to come — to him will fall the glory of being the greatest criminal in history. For in him were joined the senselessness of a Caligula with the refinement of a Borgia and the brutality of a Tsar Ivan the Terrible".
Yugoslavian Communist Milovan Đilas, Conversations with Stalin (1962), p. 187

"Stalin’s language is full of reminiscences of the theological seminary in which he received his training. What the world needs is not dogma, but an attitude of scientific inquiry, combined with a belief that the torture of millions is not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or a Deity imagined in the likeness of the believer."
Bertrand Russell,

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Religion

Swap Stalin was a Catholic to Stalin was a Jew and we could be back on DIF.

^
Persecution of other religion's by competing religion's has always gone on in Europe,Jesuits would not be any different in that regard.

Stalin waited till he was on his death bed to persecute and outlaw religions and sects?

Strange behavior don't you think.

humanspirit wrote:
Excepct he didn't. Stalin persecuted Orthodox and Catholic Xtainity most of his life. Check that link please.

Xtianiy has thousands of villains but does it really need to take the blame for the misdeeds of atheists too?

Nobody is saying St Joe was a Catholic imo, what we are saying or at least I am saying, is his proximity and respect for religion throughout his formative years made him believe anything was justifiable in the pursuit of his objectives.

Mao criticized Stalin as having a dual nature: in his own words a Dialectical Materialist, but in reality teaching Metaphysical and subjectivist interpretations:

I certainly don't think Joe was a Catholic, but he was a product of a religious upbringing and education.

Many people can have their way of thinking in later life influenced by religious upbringing and religious schooling yet not be part of the church that influenced them.
People can drop the belief in god and the ritual of religion but still keep other aspects of the religious upbringing and school teaching.

I know a few people who were brought up as catholics and went to catholic schools but don't go to church as adults and don't believe in the dogma and rituals but are very right wing in outlook due to the influence of their religious upbringing.

Guevarista wrote:
An orthodox one
humanspirit wrote:
Then they are wingnuts and there is nothing right wing about Xtianity

This thread is fucking ridiculous considereing how many people were murdered for refusing to renounce their faith at the hands of Stalin

mikey mikey wrote:
Absolutely yep.
The idea that christianity is right wing basically comes from looking at americans.

Religion is certainly authoritarian though and I would see that aspect of it no problem at all. Again that requires enough maturity to acknowledge this left/right thing is basically the same thing.

I'd be interested to know if Human was talking about Americans, I've known lot's of Right Wing Christians like he describes in the UK?

I think it's fairly fair to say the Right wing traditional views on family, morality, sex, marriage, patriarchy, attitudes towards life, drinking, drugs, the social structure and hierarchy etc is all based on biblical or religious tradition.

Mikey, I'd be interested to know exactly how a Capuchin seminary's interpretation of Orthodox Theology differed from the Doctrine perhaps the likes of Himmler, Goebbals, Streicher and Ribbentropp, received as part of their education in the Catholic and Protestant traditions of Germany?

Here is an interesting quote about Pol Pot:
Prince Norodom Sihanouk was the former king of Cambodia from 1941 as well as Head of State from 1955 to 1970 before resigning in 1976. He once said of Pol Pot:

"Pol Pot does not believe in God but he thinks that heaven, destiny, wants him to guide Cambodia in the way he thinks it the best for Cambodia, that is to say, the worst. Pol Pot is mad, you know, like Hitler." [or indeed David Icke]

He also spent years in his youth receiving tutelage in a French Catholic School called Ecole Miche, from 10 years old, you can see the same trend in all the big mass murderers in the 20th century imo, they were around Priests/educated in religious schools and coopted with religious teachings from a very young age.
They also held quite right wing positions on Nationality and Race.

So maybe we could try and figure out what it is in religion that creates these willing mass murderers?

A good book to read might be:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Eminence

I think you can see an interesting dehumanizing trend in the forum of David Icke, the way the masses of humanity are viewed with contempt, anyone who disagrees with "established" doctrine ridiculed or banned, I'm sure there are the seeds of genocide in places like that, same with the Venus Project, this is totally my own opinion, they are both extremely utopian idealists, in the case of Fresco, basically the only thing he hasn't done is explain how to achieve TVP, is he just waiting for a man of Iron Will and religious conviction to lead the masses of disenfranchised Bourgeoisie to the promised land 2.0

Guevarista wrote:
So Stalin was somehow secretely religious even if it means subconsciouly and that is why he was a mass murderer, is it?

Are you now adding another list: Pol Pot?

Are you really suggesting that the deliberate extermination of Vietnamese Christians and Buddhist Monks by a proclaimed atheist regime is somehow due to some deep secretely or subconsciously held religious belief?

So after so many people died rather than renounce their faith, be it Orthodoxy, Catholicism or Buddhism, you are now going to apply revisionism to say that they were victims of their faith rather than victims of intolerance towards their faith?

I was right: this is the equivilant of the Jew bashing on DIF.

Who said Stalin was secretly religious? It's quite open and well known how prominent religion was in Stalin's upbringing and education, the most prominent Marxist criticism's of him hint he erred on the side of Metaphysics despite being a self professed materialist, that would hint to a tendency for religious thought

I don't see how it is revisionist to chance religious thinking, religious philosophy, religious morality etc gave rise to the biggest mass murderers of the 20th century, Franco, Mussolini, I could go on, the list is quite staggeringly large?

The source of religious folk being persecuted is in other religions or other opposing religious ideologies imo, since the times of the Mahabharata it would seem to me to be based in a belief in good and evil, outsiders taking the role of evil.

Killing for god, or for an ideal, a human construct is essentially the same thing imo.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory
"And as troops of robbers wait for a man,
so the company of priests murder in the way of consent. . . .
They make the king glad with their wickedness,
and the princes with their lies" (Hosea, 6:9; 7:3)

Guevarista wrote:
Good question:
Guevarista wrote:
So thanks for asking your own question.
Guevarista wrote:
I think I shall just remind you of what you are attempting to do:
Guevarista wrote:
If you do that with even the most vicious anti-religious genocides, then yeah, the number of "religious" tyrants will only get bigger.

Revisionism is saying that Stalin's and Pol Pot's religious purges are religioulsy motivated.

Guevarista wrote:
Actually he already has explained it quite well and in some depth.
In fact, he's the ONLY guy in this so called 'truth' community who has even begun to offer an alternative.
He simply expects the power establishment to gradually move towards a resource based economy as the present one is destined to fail.
It is ofc daft to think that the elite would give up their hold on power and simply abandon the present system.
IMHO they will just have a good few wars and a cull and start all over again.

Fresco's main issue is simply his reliance on the power establishment to carry out what he says initially or for that matter to even so much as look in to it....because there's no profit in doing so...LOL!!!

I think he underestimates just how f*cked up people are in general.

There is nothing wrong with Fresco's basic idea, it simply needs scientific validation. Name me someone who will invest in doing such a thing

Do you see now?