Empathy, in my view one of, if not the, most important words on the planet.
Without empathy we are basically dangerous sacks of meat.
With it, we are literally capable of anything.
Empathy doesn't just encourage you to do right by others, it is also the key to many metaphysical and so called paranormal concepts/practices.
It is a motivator, a source of understanding, a natural barrier to wrong doing and so much more.
At the heart of all the major world religions lies empathy. Inherent to concepts like love thy neighbour and do unto others (just a shame so many world religions seem to gloss over it when it suits them).
We live in a society where our leaders have no empathy. They literally act as psychopaths devoid of concern. Our tvs tell us of deaths overseas in statistical fashion, only rarely opening the door to empathy by the use of tv charity appeals etc. Even then that empathy is co-opted to maintain the status quo....

So remember folks, it isn't that we should love our neighbour, rather that to all intents and purposes, we are our neighbour. When we are kind to others, we are kind to ourselves. When we belittle others, we belittle ourselves.

Empathy. A fekking brilliant thing

Empathy is all well and good... but I gotta say, you have to be careful who you give it to.
Would you show the world leaders empathy? Would you show a child molester/rapist empathy? Would you show empathy to those people?

As wrong as it probably is, you have to shut it off in some circumstances and hand back what they're dishing out... if for no other reason than it's the right thing to do in some situations; maybe it will make them open their eyes and see what their doing is wrong when someone else does it back.

I agree dubs - it is empathy that does make the difference. Empathy can also lead to a greater understanding.

In response to stars post my understanding is of empathy is that it is the capacity to recognize feelings that are being experienced by another sentient or semi-sentient (in fiction writing) being. i do have empathy for people who commit atrocities - but that does not mean I condone or accept their behaviour as ok.

Unfortunately it's not a highly prized trait these days. It's not really rewarded or encouraged much either. It is exploited though.

thoreau wrote:
How can you have empathy for murderers, rapists, child killers, etc? Could you have empathy for a warlord, general, whatever, who orders the massacre of a village?
I think it's our empathy that those kinds of people rely upon, and take advantage of. it's maybe how they get away with the things they do.
How could one have empathy for a soldier covered in the blood of innocent men, women, and children who he just hacked to pieces with a machete? That shit, as we know, happens.

Violence begets violence.

Perhaps the reason it happens is we attack the symptoms and never learn the root causes?

Guevarista wrote:
What if evil, plain and simple, is at the root?

I like the OP.

I personally can't empathise with people who commit atrocities, because I either I can't imagine what their motivation is, or it's so disgusting or misguided, to my way of thinking, that I just don't get it.

There are 'experts' who spend their lives looking for root causes of violence, but to what avail? I'm not saying they should throw the towel in, but, for example, where they say that poverty is a big cause of crime - well yes, that seems plausible, but now that it's been identified as a trigger, who's doing anything about it?

When the little, white-haired lady 2 doors away got mugged in the street for the pension she'd just collected at the post office, it'd be safe to assume it was probably a youth from one of the rough estates nearby who did it. Maybe because he feels embittered about not having a job / iphone etc etc. Knowing that doesn't make it easier to accept, or enable anyone (except him) to do anything positive about it.

irrepressible wrote: Then obviously wielding the ceremonial blade of our good fathers we shall smite thy vile serpent from the midst of the garden and crush his head beneath our foot, ye verily harken the angels.

Does "evil" tm really still exist in the 21st century, now we know things??
that shows a slight lack of empathy, not criticizing you I can see how you would choose not to extend your warmth to such icy depths.

Guevarista wrote:
Ooh - that's interesting. Do you not think such a thing as 'evil' actually exists then?
Guevarista wrote:
Well it would, since the sentenced started with..."I per­son­ally can’t empathise with peo­ple who com­mit atroc­i­ties".

Not really Gill I think it's just a label applied to complex human behaviours in complex environments.

Logic and the influences upon someone's logical thought process in their life can shed light on "evil" behaviour, acts etc.

You should check out a youtube docu called child of rage, quite a good example of:but it's not a very pleasant documentary, you've been warned

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
I haven't caught up with the rest of the thread, but I want to say that I agree with this, it's high fashion to be a bitch. In the states, I think it began around the time of the television show "Dynasty" starring Joan Collins. It was at that time that the culture changed and MTV videos played a part too.

It's not highly prized and my career has suffered for it. I was told by a co-worker that another co-worker was telling everyone that she didn't respect me because I was "too nice" and I know that is not the first time I was disrespected for being so.

And people will always try to take advantage. I think people mistake empathy for stupidity.

I don't mean to interrupt your guys conversation, I am blabbing in the corner here.

Guevarista wrote:
It'll probably be the weekend before I get round to watching. It might make me revise my opinion, but instinctively, I feel there is such a thing as evil. Regardless of what cruelty and injustices might, in some cases, have fricked people up, if someone derives pleasure / satisfaction from hurting others, and that's their motivation, they're evil.

@irre

I guess that I just believe that people are the sum of their experiences - and that various belief systems allow people to circumvent the 'humanity' path down the 'evil' (if you want to call it that) path.

It is alien to me for example to think that anyone is inferior because of their gender, skin colour, religion or sexuality - but many many people are happy to discriminate or even call for the deaths of people based on those factors alone.

it is amazing to me how people allow themselves to justify their actions - and yet I can see how they come to those justifications - I am empathic to what has brought them to that point in their lives. Doesnt mean I excuse it as I said - I can just see how it came to it.

Great OP.

Dub; you are almost entirely correct, but there is the other side of the coin: Schadenfreude.

Psycopaths, or Sociopaths, are the extreme example. According to some of the material i have read, it seems that within 4% of the population empathy is lacing.

Whether this is due to biological reasons or enviromental ones (Psychopath/Sociopath theories respectively) is part of the whole Nature-Nurture debate. A dichotomu taht I belive is false as I suspect, personally, that it can be one or the other but most commonly both: hence the initiation ceremonies devised by groups that must "shed" any natural empathy. A good example is the hazing carried out in the mercanary units like Blackwater or the "fraternities" of certain elite schools and universities (Skull and Bones etc.) or perhaps the initiation "jobs" of organised crime.

Scary stuff.

Then there are people with evil streaks who have no justification for what they do and to ask them to justify or explain only makes matters worse. I am talking about the sociopath. And those types do not have any reason environmental or parental, for who they are. At least nothing that can be seen or understood. I've known a few and known their backgrounds and their families (because I am in the same family) and not only are they lacking in empathy, the suffering of others gives them pleasure and/or adrenal rushes. There is no explanation. They just are. Once I understood this, my life actually got a lot easier.

^^^mikey beat me to the punch. That is what I am talking about except without an nature or nurture event.
.

irrepressible wrote:
Indeed evil is a mystery in some cases.

For example, Macbeth was evil in action but certainly it is clear that Shakespear took the time to show how he was on a slippery slop but not "born evil" but allowed himself to be transformed into a monster by his ambitiopn.

Than you have King Lear's Edmund whose evil was born from his need for vengeance at the abuse that he suffered.

Even though they are both despicable they are bith "anti-heroes" in the sense that, even though we know that they are evil in thought and deed, we can empathise, or at least, sympathise to a certain extent because we can see their road to evil and we remember who they were.

And then there is Iago (from Othello) whom Shakespeare offers no explanation (or rather he offers a dozen false explanations for).

If you would like a more "pop culture" example of this think The Joker of Dark Knight: "you wanna know how I got these scars?" as opposed to the misguided Misanthropy of Rahz Al Ghul.

In effect, they are all evil, but the source of that evil is quite different.

And if you want to look deeper into the Abyss, check out my thread on Screwtape.

I see what you mean thor, but I think that belief systems are more often than not used as handy excuses to commit horrific acts.
I also think that there are people in this world who are just plain evil, who derive pleasure from the suffering of others, or who disregard the suffering of others to achieve their ends...how did they come to it? Bad childhoods? I think a lot of the time, there is no reason for how they came to it, it's just what they do because it's just how they are. Those kinds of people I can't empathise with, the kind of people who would end your life and not lose a seconds sleep over it.
I can't empathise with people who have no empathy.

A man who rapes and murders a child, for instance...if that's not evil, then I don't know what is.

irrepressible wrote:
I think that empathy as a default is good but prudence should be exercised.

the crimes that you mentioned could not have occured, if the perpatrator had been capable or had not rejected his or her own empathy.

Therefore the example you bring do not reduce the argument for empathy but rather strengthen them.

But I agree that we cannot pretend they do ot happen, if for no other reason than the empathy for their victims be they past, present or potential.

What about a situation where you're defending your life, or the lives of others? That little pang of empathy for the perpetrator might just cause enough hesitation for you or a loved one to lose their life.
I'm talking about a direct confrontation with a person without empathy.
In a situation like that I suppose one would naturally, automatically switch empathy off.

I'm really not firing on alll cylinders tonight, haven't been for the past couple of days Not sure if I'm explaining well, or wtf I'm trying to get at.