Have a watch/listen to this and pay attention to the words




Now....can you show me a bona fide example of an "isolated system"?

Now watch the second section



Seems Mr Bellamy has decided resistance is futile and you may as well accept the transhumanist path...

That'll explain the Olympic torch etc eh Mr Bellamy.... You poor misguided sell out.

The comments section on that second vid are interesting. Bear in mind that Muse are/were a 'conspiracy' band.

Come on folks. Someone must have a proper example of an isolated system!

I can not watch the video right now but I took a look at the lyrics for the album.


Muse in my mind were never really a conspiracy band as such. They were always a pretty good rock band. I think they read some stuff at some point and got interested in some conspiracy type authors. Of course there was the time Bellamy had info wars .com on his shirt and some things got said and they were embraced by conspiracy folks. This album does not seem to go either way lyric wise.

I looked on answers and some good ones there on isolated system. It would appear to be impossible. Perhaps this comes from a book too. Maybe one of those smart books.

Cheers I-b.

Yeah Bellamy did gigs a few years ago wearing a t-shirt with "terrorstorm" on it (Alex Jones film). Albums like Absolution were basically all about the hidden hand that guides the planet through secrecy. In those days Bellamy was well in to the 'conspiracy' thing. And this year he took part in the biggest 'illuminati' symbol fest pretty much ever, namely the Olympic games ceremony.

You're absolutely right, an isolated system doesn't exist in nature. Therefore to build and promote a World view based on the 2nd law of thermodynamics is at best misguided, at worst deliberately obtuse......

My views on the whole illuminati thing have shifted somewhat. I mean symbols get used and reused and copied and spoofed and used in design as art. Ceremonies etc are all rooted in history and wrapped up in those images. So the sight of an eye or whatever is most likely just a design thing. A nice little tag on a triangle. I am not so inclined to think it more sinister. I would also suggest that the Olympics was most likely just a business decision. You can view it as selling out or indeed as joining Satan but I think it was most likely part of cracking the global market. Not sure I can judge people who do such things too harshly.

Also regarding the isolated system it is something that goes along with so many lyrics. Your average three minute song often has a message or meaning missed or misunderstood by the listener. Some artists explain their lyrics but not all. Some like to keep it personal and let the listener decide for themselves. Of course some songs might just be balls. Or it could be meant ironically or something. Who knows? Have you heard the album? I am interested in the music from what I hear they are trying new things. Lyrics like theirs often sound better than they are read.

Please don't take my last post as thinking I'm into the whole illuminati thing. The symbology in that ceremony was certainly very interesting though

Yes, I have the album, musically it's very good indeed. There is a track called animals on it which is very much a comment on the banking/corporate system. Muse are a band I've been aware of right from the get go when they were a local Devon band. They started off with rather obsucre lyrics about feeling alienated within their 'community' but the lyrics have got progressively more literal and 'global' as they've moved on. I think it fair to say that those 2nd law words are meant to be taken literally. Iirc there is a line that says, "fuse Helium 3, our last chance", there's not a lot of room in that for thinking there's symbology involved

Well that stuff is alien to me but I take your word for it. They are good live. I was not really that into them but was at the Reading festival and it was raining one day. None of the bands inspired me to leave the tent at the time so a couple of us sat there and we were close enough to hear them from our tent. It was pretty good when rain was added. That was some time ago. I have the album before this new one. That was good I thought.

You've hit on something there that is kind of why I've gone at the lyrics and video to this 2nd law thing. The last album you mentioned, "Resistance" had a very strong message that we have to follow our hearts and work together to resist the elites. They literally spelled it out. Though the album closed with that symphony which did kind of hint that Bellamy had reached a point where he thought we needed to start again from scratch.
Now he appears to be saying that as far as he is concerned, resistance is futile and we may as well accept that our only hope is technology and a transhumanist future. You'd have to watch the second vid to get what I mean there, as you can't at the moment I'll give you a quick outline.
The video involves a group of people who are running away from something. What they are running from is a huge wave. That wave is rendering the world as a computer model. It is taking the physical world and literally rendering it virtual as it moves. As the video progresses, one by one the group is caught by the wave and absorbed into it. Until only one is left. That person falls down exhausted, then stands up and faces the approaching wave. They then run towards it, they give up and accept their 'fate'.
It's a very strong piece of film with an equally strong 'message'. One very much in opposition to the Resistance album's theme of um, resisting

In this video, the drummer explains the reasoning behind the use of the 2nd law of thermodynamics in this context (2:04 onwards):

Now, for arguments sake if you accept that the universe is an isolated system and that big bang theory etc are all true, just how much 'time' do they think it will take for the energy of the universe to reach a state of equilibrium?

What I'm getting at is that even if those theories are all true, it's not something we need to worry about for an inconceivably large amount of 'time'. Therefore, I contend it is rather disingenuous to use that possible ultimate fate in the context.

Please forgive the fact this is basically an Icke interview but the bit I find interesting is the interview with Bellamy at the start.
Having come out and said he now agrees with the official story of 911 he jokingly(?) says this stuff:

I often think we are supposed to be living upon a prison planet in a prison universe, a sealed universe, a place amongst defective stones with defective genes that must be contained at all costs. Imagine what destruction our version of reality could unleash upon other possible peaceful places amongst the many stars.

As we are we are little better than a varroa destructor species feeding off of itself regardless of the long term costs, to both ourselves and our host.

I'm sure many here will see exactly why you think that. It's like humanity sat down and asked itself "what are THE most destructive systems and practices we can put in place?", brainstormed it and then got to work making it so (to coin a phrase)

The two songs that inspired this thread do hit on the subject, the theme of unsustainability runs through their core. My issue with them is the exploitation of this 2nd law of thermodynamics as basically a shock tactic.:

"All natural and technological processes proceed in such a way that the availability of the remaining energy decreases. In all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves an isolated system, the entropy of that system increases. Energy continuously flows from being concentrated, to becoming dispersed, spread out, wasted and useless. New energy cannot be created and high grade energy is being destroyed. An economy based on endless growth is Unsustainable Unsus- Unsustain- unsustain- unsustainable- Unsus- unsus unsustaina- unsustaina Unsus- unsustain- unsustain- unsustainable- Unsus- unsus- You're unsustainable Unsustaina- unsustaina- unsustaina The fundamental laws of thermodynamics will place fixed limits on technological innovation and human advancement. In an isolated system the entropy can only increase. A species set on endless growth is Unsustainable Unsus- Unsustain- unsustain- unsustainable Unsus- unsus unsustaina- unsustaina Unsus- unsustain- unsustain- unsustainable Unsus- unsus- You're unsustainable"

It's not that the words are a lie, certainly an economy based on perpetual growth is unsustainable, certainly we are wantonly consuming energy resources.....I'm probably being over picky in taking objection to the 2nd law bit but I think it's a scary distraction that whilst it may shock some into action, will likely make others lose hope and become less inclined to act. They may get more fatalistic and think they can do nothing to 'help'... As in the second video which basically says "give in you haven't got a chance"

What is "high grade energy" and how is it "being destroyed"?

Now you've gone and done it Oi

As I understand it, the 2nd law dictates that ultimately all energy will become balanced out until no more transformations are capable of taking place.
A high grade energy is one which is basically further away from that point of equilibrium. An energy which has the potential to do work, to go through lots of transformations. Examples being mechanical/kinetic energy and electricity.
A low grade energy is one which is closer to that point of equilibrium. An energy which has less potential for change. An example being heat.
I don't think I explained that very well

How is high grade energy being destroyed? I guess because as work is done in the universe, more energy becomes heat like when you press the brake in your car, the kinetic energy becomes heat through the brake pads and discs...

So stop using the brakes in your car and we'll be fine

Ah, I see. So it's essentially graded according to it's usefulness/profitability to humans?



Will we ever learn?

I'm not really sure you can say that's it as such.
The 2nd law says that eventually the energy in an isolated system will reach a point where ALL the potential conversions are done. That there will then be a uniform distribution of energy throughout the system. (Incidentally that theoretically spells the end of time).
So the classification of high grade energy is really that of an energy which has the potential for many many conversions.

Nuclear fission is profitable but it represents a low grade energy because once that energy is released in the form of heat it has relatively little potential for conversion into other forms of energy. Whereas the energy 'contained' in the atom has great potential as long as it's in the atom. If you get my drift.

I think I get you, it just seems to be a global rather than universal model. In the universal model what we do here is of minute significance to the grand 'equilibrium'.

Absolutely. That's an intrinsic part of why I object to what Muse appear to be saying in those tracks. This is a fricking big Universe and even the standard model predicts it's gonna be a mighty long time before heat death occurs.

Yes we need to responsibly address our energy needs and how we meet them. That much is like the nose on yer face. To couch it in terms of the 2nd law with it's doom gloom universal death message though is like, wooooaahhh stfu!

The way things work at the moment, most energy created by mankind is brough to us along the greatest distance possible, it is created only by converting one form into another as the law of conservation dictates.

If you use free physical energy wisely the benefits are at their greatest to those who expel it and evenly share out any surpluses, as we are right now we are allowing the exact opposite to flourish by being far more sedate of mind and body upon the shoulders of all the hard working, who expel much and gain less from those actions in hand.

I tend to look upon things in the physicsl scence as this is the only way we can see the fruits or ill gotten gains of our physical labour, the universe is set on a stable output, the sun giving more or less the same energy now as it did fifty thousand years ago.

The visible output has'nt changed, but the way we waste our perpetual energy has changed. If we as humans want equilibrium we need to head back towards true earth time and to be more in balance with how the universe runs perpetually

Night and Day, in balance with the gyres of the whole, this way nothing comes at a cost to anyone.

Once we work things out we will reach Nirvana/perfection, without money or oneupmanship over the rest of our whole, it could be qs simple as tieing ones own shoe laces.