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TOPIC: Do more guns really make you safer?

Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 08:39 #1

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An interesting video which came up after watching Ann Coulter talk about how Aurora etc were gun free zones and that is why so many died. I personally think that is a rather ignorant view much like most of her views. Looking at a lot of comments people appear to agree with her who don't normally.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 09:19 #2

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I would say that if those ambush in the room exercises were repeated in a room where more than one person was armed, and the intruder didnt know who was armed and therefore didnt know which person to target (unlike in the ABC clip) then the intruder wouldnt last very long. :cool:

Damn, Dianne Sawyer is still lookin good, 67 yrs old. :inluv:
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Last Edit: 06 Jan 2013 09:38 by novum.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 09:35 #3

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The point is clear that reactions are too slow or people freeze. Even when they know what's coming. So if a person comes in shooting then they can get off x times as many shots even more with an assault weapon. If for argument you arm everybody in the room I see potential for more blood if anything.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 09:42 #4

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Reaction time for highly trained people who know exactly what's happening.

www.bluesheepdog.com/reaction-time-police-shooting-study/
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 09:49 #5

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www.simplypsychology.org/eyewitness-testimony.html


I would quote parts of this but not on a phone. Worth a read though.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 09:50 #6

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i-baster wrote:
The point is clear that reactions are too slow or people freeze. Even when they know what's coming. So if a person comes in shooting then they can get off x times as many shots even more with an assault weapon. If for argument you arm everybody in the room I see potential for more blood if anything.

Id like to see if the shooter could proceed to another room though and do more of the same if more people in that room were armed. :cool:

chances are he would take a hit and be dropped.

That situation isnt real either, and assumes any gunman is suicidal in a ways...let me clarify what im getting at..that guy acting out the intruder role KNOWS he wont get hurt. Not to mention ambushes of classroom type situations are rare.

In real life, people who do home invasions or store robberies arent typically suicidal and insane...they just want money most of the time...if a gun is pulled on them its quite a different story...they dont want to die...and if they know someone else is armed, they likely wont even intrude or rob. I even knew someone who would do home invasions to steal drugs and he would always avoid people he knew were armed, despite being armed himself.

so there is a prevention factor to consider also.

If store owners for example are denied being able to legally hold a weapon, and criminals know this, i would say that robberies will increase for one.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 10:20 #7

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I agree that the more guns there are, the more potential for blood shed. But where I was pretty much against gun ownership not that long ago, the recent spate of gun related horrors which has got a lot of people condemning it, has pushed me the other way.

If sitting in a theatre, for eg, and someone comes in shooting, it would be horrible to be hit by confused friendly fire, or to have to risk hurting someone else with your own mis-aimed shots. But having said that, would I like to have a fighting chance, or be a lamb to the slaughter. Given the opportunity, I'd choose the former option.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 10:57 #8

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A few videos... now why didnt these people freeze?














15 Year Old Boy Uses Dad's AR-15 to Shoot Invader:




So yeah it goes both ways of course.

I could post a lot more of these ftr.
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Last Edit: 06 Jan 2013 11:07 by novum.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 11:16 #9

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Chicago has tough gun laws, but leads nation in gun violence




Chicago grapples with gun violence; death toll soars

"CHICAGO — Flags flew at half-staff all across the winter-draped city last week to honor the dead in Newtown, Conn. The massacre was unspeakable, and yet Chicago counts far more homicide victims every month — many of them young people — than died in the carnage in Connecticut.

Their deaths usually go unmarked.

Since Jan. 1, Chicago police have recorded 2,364 shooting incidents and 487 homicides, 87 percent of them gun-related. Shootings have increased 12 percent this year and homicides are up 19 percent."

articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-21/n...-national-gun-debate


A comment from a reader on the page i link to above...
In a post Heller environment, The number of homicides dropped again last year in the Washington region, including in the District, which grew in population and yet recorded the fewest killings in a half-century. If the anti-gun movement were correct, the numbers should have gone up.....drastically. But that's not the case. They went down, in part, because the bad guys now know that folks can defend themselves.

www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/homic...3a013264b_story.html

In contrast, Chicago, which has one of the toughest gun bans in the country at the moment has seen an explosion of murders. Over 500 last year.

www.washingtonpost.com/national/chicago-...638ede391_story.html

What does it take for the anti-gun folks to understand cause and effect?

Bad guys don't care about laws. They will have guns no matter what law you pass and if they can't get a gun they will use something else just as effective and just as horrible.

Do you really not understand that?

The only people you are going to regulate are the legal gun owners, hunters and sportsmen, that help pay for parks, wildlife management and refuges that you enjoy with your family. Paid for in part by fees from hunting licenses, stamps and other fees imposed on us. You make us out to be ogres yet, in reality, we help keep green spaces alive and keep animal herds healthy and thriving. We don't mind paying those fees because we know where the money is going. Wake up and smell the coffee....please.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 12:04 #10

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ridiculous video.. you're probably going to get shot, you have 0.5 seconds GOGOGOGO
brought to you by abc/disney/cops

ofc people are not going to be quick draw mcgraw and blowing away terrorists shooting from the hip. but at least give us a chance.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 12:36 #11

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It doesn't stop the same situation happening where there supposedly aren't guns.
For example, the UK.

Novums videos are proof that those with the ability can and do use them successfully.

Again it all boils down to motive for crime in the first place imho.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 16:02 #12

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batou wrote:
ridiculous video.. you're probably going to get shot, you have 0.5 seconds GOGOGOGO
brought to you by abc/disney/cops

ofc people are not going to be quick draw mcgraw and blowing away terrorists shooting from the hip. but at least give us a chance.

I think the video was examining how effective a conceal carry would be in such a situation. The point also made in the video is that real situations are not the same as target shooting. Not sure what relevance there is in it being on ABC.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 16:17 #13

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its as relevant as knowing a news report comes from say fox news or msnbc.. its propaganda is what im saying.
the only point made in the video is a gun man comes into a room and shoots people, it happens pretty quickly. of course people are going to choke and panic. same could be said whats the point of having bear spray and putting people in a room and surprising them by dropping a raging grizzly bear through the ceiling. its manipulation plain and simple.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 16:20 #14

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Do more knives makes society safer? What about chainsaws, samurai swords, axes, baseball bats, etc? Or for that matter tasers? Or cars? If someone's going to try to rob an off-licence, they'll find a weapon to do it with. Guns possibly make it slightly easier, but I wouldn't take any chances with someone carrying a knife, personally.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 16:24 #15

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Novum: I am not saying guns have never saved lives or deterred crime but the question is do they make us safer? Sure a petty criminal will avoid crimes based on the presence of guns the same way they might pick a house with no alarm system and things like that.

There are also plenty of examples of people killed with their own gun (like Lanza's mum for example). Sure some people don't freeze or the situation they are in gives them more time. The point is that I don't see arming the audience as a necessary defense against things like Aurora. The relaxed atmosphere of a cinema or school you are not going to be expecting a shooting.

Another good point made in the video is that the best thing to do is run or hide maybe play dead. Getting in a gunfight with a crazy person in a crowded room might just buy time for those that run or maybe kill more people in the crossfire.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 16:28 #16

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they gave kids guns for a few hours. they weren't comfortable with them. maybe that fat dude at the end but still its not like he had a gun on his hip for anything but 30 minutes. practice and confidence in ability is needed. its a deceitful video presented as de facto proof.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 16:30 #17

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i-baster wrote:
Novum: I am not saying guns have never saved lives or deterred crime but the question is do they make us safer?
Why not take all guns and tasers off police then? Surely that would make us safer by definition.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 16:33 #18

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
i-baster wrote:
Novum: I am not saying guns have never saved lives or deterred crime but the question is do they make us safer?
Why not take all guns and tasers off police then? Surely that would make us safer by definition.


I had not suggested taking guns away from anybody. Obviously if they didn't exist we would be safer though.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 16:36 #19

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batou wrote:
they gave kids guns for a few hours. they weren't comfortable with them. maybe that fat dude at the end but still its not like he had a gun on his hip for anything but 30 minutes. practice and confidence in ability is needed. its a deceitful video presented as de facto proof.

Did you actually watch the video? One of them had hundreds of hours of experience. All of them were given training above requirements in many states.
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Do more guns really make you safer? 06 Jan 2013 16:41 #20

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i-baster wrote:
I had not suggested taking guns away from anybody. Obviously if they didn't exist we would be safer though.
This isn't a particularly useful statement, though, is it? You might as well say "if cancer didn't exist we'd all be safer".
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