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TOPIC: Russel Brand pwns Paxman

Russel Brand pwns Paxman 09 Nov 2013 18:54 #241

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A resource based economy is the answer. And it is in our face obvious IMHO. Perhaps the human potential scares people and the need to climb back into the schoolyard mentality of "I have an ice cream and you don't" to lend meaning to their lives.
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Last Edit: 09 Nov 2013 18:55 by mikey mikey.
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 09 Nov 2013 18:54 #242

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I don't hate Mr Brand or revel in his misfortunes by any stretch of the imagination. Just to clarify, I approach all such media with suspicion. Tis simply the way my mind is wired. I am no more likely to believe someone because I have watched them on TV for years or read about them in newspapers than I am some nutter stood on a box at speakers' corner.

Someone with his background is automatically up for dissection/close examination simply because of the nature of his 'work'. I go from there, as I would with anyone I'd never actually met in the flesh before. As ever, the proof is in the pudding. I'm quite sure he doesn't really give a shit what me or anyone else thinks of him at this point, anyway.

There is some validity in what he has written and said, undoubtedly. But, it is nothing the likes of you and me don't already know, and I do become concerned when people automatically hold someone up without scrutinising possible motivations, no matter who they are or where they come from (ahem, see DIF, ahem) and EVEN MORE SO where an organisation such as the BBC is involved. Lest we forget just what they've been up to for the last 60+ years.

Our differences of opinion on this issue are what make us such an interesting community, to my mind at least. I think we'd do well to remember that. Until he invites me to his house to finger his dainty china, I shall reserve judgement.

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Last Edit: 09 Nov 2013 19:03 by Abs.
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 09 Nov 2013 18:59 #243

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You do well to do so, in my humble opinion. But he has set his career back a lot by saying what he has. And he calls Snowden and Manning heroes for having sacrificing their liberty. More than Paxman anyway.

Bear in mind that my favourite hero walked directly into crucifixion.
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 09 Nov 2013 22:33 #244

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mikey mikey wrote:

Bear in mind that my favourite hero walked directly into crucifixion.

On that I agree with you. :)
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 09 Nov 2013 23:50 #245

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No words apart from thank you
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 10 Nov 2013 11:15 #246

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This is getting daft even for the Telegraph

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-...Wows-Nick-Clegg.html
“ISN’T Russell Brand marvellous?” said George, as he and Dave settled down in the Downing Street Communications Hub – or the telly room, to give it its proper name. “Look! He’s got Paxo eating out of the palm of his hand. And the under-25s are crazy for him! Lynton would kill for that sort of coverage.”
apologies if those who love that rag ;) :hide:
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 08:22 #247

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knobmeup wrote:
frothy wrote:
Woken up, is RB's term for 'changed my mind'...Is he actually trying to tell us that he's been asleep all his life and then all of a sudden he's become a 'consciousness guru'.

Waking up isn't changing your mind in the classic sense. Changing your mind is altering your conclusion to a question or series of questions.
Waking up is seeing that you have indeed been living in a dream, blind to the 'realities' of the World.
There is an ocean between the two states of mind :spank:

As for the second bit of the quote....if you drop the guru slur from it, I'd say the answer would be yes.

Ok fair enough
However all this 'sleeping' while RB has been ''inside'' the media industry, he claims to have been not awake, he only recently says that he's 'woken up' and that's his excuse for his prior behaviours that he now disagrees with.

I think we can all agree on that, as RB says such himself. (in his own words at different times)

I did see the BNP thing that oioioi posted, so then, was RB asleep then or not, he only recently says that he has 'woken up'. :conf:

It means that if RB was awake at the time he made the BNP comments kindly linked by oioioi then he must have fallen asleep again after that and now has rewoken again as Mr consciousness speaker?
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Last Edit: 11 Nov 2013 08:43 by Cousin_Frothy.
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 12:52 #248

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Cousin_Frothy wrote:
It means that if RB was awake at the time he made the BNP comments kindly linked by oioioi then he must have fallen asleep again after that and now has rewoken again as Mr consciousness speaker?

I don't think becoming aware that the current two-party political system is unrepresentative and knowing that the BNP are a bunch of racist cunts are actually necessarily connected.
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 13:09 #249

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mikey mikey wrote:
Cousin_Frothy wrote:
It means that if RB was awake at the time he made the BNP comments kindly linked by oioioi then he must have fallen asleep again after that and now has rewoken again as Mr consciousness speaker?

I don't think becoming aware that the current two-party political system is unrepresentative and knowing that the BNP are a bunch of racist cunts are actually necessarily connected.

So then RB has recently revealed he 'woke up' so what has he been since then, and how did he get from being in a state of not awake to someone who is so awake that it's become his new identity? Surely we know about two party politics whether we are 'awake' or not, it's obvious.
I'm not convinced that RB was as asleep prior to his recent announcements thus he has been aware of his previous behaviour but is using this term 'woke up' to excuse it.
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 13:32 #250

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"Woke up" is a shit term anyway.
It's the type of bullshit religions etc use to separate believers from sceptics etc.
For most people our entire lives is about becoming more aware of the bullshit fed to us when we were younger and naive.

We become more aware of different things at different times as each takes our attention. Each grain of knowledge accrued can change our opinion, then next grain found could change it back again.
Exactly how science works for example.
The Matrix was a film. That's all, just a film. There are no pills to instantly make you aware of all.
No guru is going to pull back the curtain for you.
If you think you've experienced a 'road to Damascus' epiphany and all is clear now, you probably need a bit of help.

Wise men question, fools are certain.
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 13:38 #251

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I wonder .... let's see RB is some type of comedian, he says so himself, plus television presenter and actor.
So if part of his persona is comedian, I find it hard to believe that he would not have been aware of George Carlin or Bill Hicks, both of whom would have discussed the political systems in their acts and during interviews etc....
RB is his alternative acts has been far from not switched on, I find it remarkable that only now he would become aware of the political system not being representative of the general public, surely even with reference to 'Marx' it shows that he's interested in subjects of political systems.

So for me it's not that RB has just 'woken up' it's more like he's decided to come out with all this now but he's only really repeating comedians that are better than he, as mentioned above.

So what we have imo is RB reinventing himself as a public figure as to shake off some of his bad boy Libertine esque attitude, it's more like he's 'grown up' not 'woke up'.

Pointing out the same stuff that is obvious to anyone with a functionable brain is not being awake.

''war is bad''....''political system is corrupt''...... ''distribution of wealth is unbalanced''...... ''environmental issues are important''
Surely we know all this already, where is the enlightenment RB ?
All I see is RB has a comedy show to plug and he needs to rid himself of his appearance in the Olympics ceremony with statements such as '' I disagree with the public spectacle but like to see us win medals, when in fact he was not viewing anyone receive or win a medal in his Olympic performance....
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 13:44 #252

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How do you know he was not watching people receive medals?

Me thinks the Forthy doth protest too much.
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 13:55 #253

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mikey mikey wrote:
How do you know he was not watching people receive medals?

Me thinks the Forthy doth protest too much.

I don't know what he did privately/off show, just his public performance was all about 'spectacle' and zero to do with viewing anyone winning 'medals'.

If what he likes is the 'winning medals' and not the 'spectacle' why not just watch the medal winning and stay away from the spectacle ceremony to close the Olympics?
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 13:57 #254

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Russell Brand, the Posh Left and the Politics of Class

In case you couldn’t tell, this is a drawing I did of Russell Brand. I decided to draw him as part of my Headlines series which I am currently working on. I seriously didn’t know a damn thing about Brand until he was brought under my radar because of his essay in the October 24 Issue of The New Statesman in which Brand – pop star Katy Perry’s ex-husband, comedian, and “notorious womanizer” – talks about ineffective government, the silencing and apathy of the disenfranchised, and the need for revolt. What interested me more than the Brand essay itself was the backlash that Brand and people on the Left who support his political stance received from elite Academic Leftists and insulated politically correct Secular Leftists. In my opinion, Brand stirring the pot of class, activism and political agitation is even more important than the closed circles of self-congratulatory Leftists who purport to be champions of the under and working classes while they have never gotten their hands dirty and refuse to see how class affects real people – not just people who are represented as ideas in books or vehicles for propaganda.

When I announced that I was going to draw Russell Brand, my fifteen year old daughter exclaimed with undisguised disgust: “Why would you draw Russell Brand? He’s horrible!” When I asked her why he was horrible, my daughter said that Brand exploited Katy Perry by posting photos of her on Twitter without her permission. In other words, my high school age kid knew a lot more about Brand than I did, but I quickly did my research. I read his article in the New Statesman, watched his movie Get Me To The Greek, and read his book My Booky Wook: A Memoir of Sex, Drugs, and Stand-Up to get a sense of who this guy is that is getting so much attention. My first assessment is that he is a guy who came from the trenches and fought his way out with his humor and energy. He snubs his nose at the politically correct elite, and in his essay in the New Statesman he provides a voice that people (especially young people) will listen to. No, he’s not going to start a revolution, but he has stirred the pot, and motion is better than stagnancy.

Russell Brand and those who have “taken his side” have gotten a lot of shit. Brand has especially been reamed for taking the stance of the revolutionary while he is living high on the hog in his celebrity and riches. However, it must be noted that Brand himself outwardly critiques his position and asks “Who am I to talk?” Well, he is able to talk for a couple of reasons: 1) as a pop culture icon, his voice will be heard by young people; and 2) he has come from the lower classes himself and knows what that life is like. He is not speaking from theory but from experience. For the record, Russell Brand – asshole, womanizer or not – did not come from privilege. He came from the lower classes and was lucky enough to joke his way out of it. He personally knows the struggles that the underclass face. He knows the streets, the hopelessness, the drugs, the feeling of beaten down and not able to get out.

Let me state something else quite clearly. You cannot erase class no matter how many swank hotel rooms you stay in. Class sticks even if your bank account is lined with greenbacks. I know firsthand how it feels to wear my class like a coat of anxiety. No matter how far you climb on the cultural or economic ladder, if you come from the underclass, you never stop feeling your inferior position. With elitist Leftists slamming you at every turn, the anxiety is amplified to the Nth. Not only do you feel awkward and anxious occupying a strata where you don’t feel you belong, but you get critiqued by people who think they know more about class than you do when you live with the burdens of your class background every day. Class manifests itself in a person’s entire psycho-social biological being, and it is not simply erased because one becomes successful of the surface.

It is clear from reading Brand and watching him in his movie, that he is fully aware of the vulnerability of his position because of his class background, so he exploits his class origins for humor in ways that Leftists often find offensive. (e.g. The “African Child” video in Get Him to the Greek which is an overt critique of Hollywood centrist leftists like George Clooney, Ben Affleck et al.) Also, Brand isn’t just funny. He is self-reflexive and serious in his humor. He understands how his drug addiction and other “personality flaws” are connected to class, and he uses his experience to formulate his ideas into terms that can connect with those who are “in it” and not just outside observers.

My general position has always been that getting “the masses” to think politically outside the box is a good thing, and popular culture is an effective way to do that. This goes back to my early days with Bad Subjects whose “manifesto” promotes Political Education for Everyday Life. Academic left elitists and closed circles of politically correct secular Leftists only preach to the choir. They rarely accomplish a damn thing except stroking each others’ egos. Regardless of Brand’s celebrity, his words and repurposed Marxism will reach many more people than those Posh Lefties sitting in their ivory towers. I’m a populist at heart, and you aren’t going to reach the populace with a lot of high fallutin’ language and discourse that no one but your elite club can understand. Brand’s writing reads like a pop song with punch that will get people riled and thinking.

The text I included on my drawing is cut-up text from Brand’s New Statesman essay and reads as follows:

Ambling towards oblivion. Whores, virtueless horses and money-grabbing dicklickers. Young people have been marketed without the economic means to participate in the carnival. Apathy is a rational reaction to a system that no longer represents, hears or addresses the vast majority of people. Mechanised indifference and inefficiency. Apathy is the biggest obstacle to change. Zeroes lining up three wide. Planes falling from the sky. This is serious, you cunt. The devil has all the best tunes. No obstacles to the agendas of these slow-thighed beasts. Blithering chimps, in razor-sharp suits, with razor-sharp lines, pimped and crimped by spin doctors and speech-writers. The feeling that you aren’t being heard or seen or represented isn’t psychosis; it’s government policy. (Pieces of Russell Brand, 24 October 2013)

Those words have some bang behind them. Brand is not going to start a revolution, and he openly says as much. However, his language packs revolutionary punch, not unlike the Beat poets but for the new millennium. Speaking out politically in terms that the general populace can understand and relate to has its merits. What good does analyzing Marxist theory in a closed club of Left elitists provide for the general population on the streets? The answer is easy. None. Brand is a pop figure speaking in a language the general population can understand. Regardless of the opinion of well-credentialed Left Elites or the PoshLeft as Mark Fisher (author of Capitalist Realism) refers to them, Brand is not stupid or uninformed. He has done his homework even if it wasn’t in the halls of higher education institutions. If you read Brand’s essay closely, he’s wielding some pretty straightforward Marxist theory, but it’s packaged like a pop song not a dissertation.

We live in times of great apathy and hopelessness. To quote one of my favorite recent phrases, kids “could give a flying fuck” about a bunch of intellectual snobs citing their source material and stroking each other’s egos while excluding the vast majority of the population from their discussion. For those of us with children, it is very hard to imagine a future for our kids, and very hard for them to imagine one for themselves. Kids are not going to listen to the PoshLeft or aging hippie activists. Sorry, it’s just not going to happen. Idealism is well and fine, but reality is reality. Kids see a big wall of hopelessness facing them down in their future. The voices they are going to listen to aren’t the voices of their parents, intellectual elites, or old school Lefty activists. What will stir them out of their numb hopeless slumber are the voices they are familiar with — the voices of pop culture, voices like Russell Brand, which can have tremendous ability to stir young people out of their state of apathy and into a state of political agitation.

When the PoshLeft isn’t excluding the general population, they get their kicks deriding people like Brand and those who are brave enough to publicly take Brand’s side. People like me, for example. I have no doubt I will come under fire for writing this essay. Maybe Brand has a Messiah Complex. Maybe he is full of shit while he sits in his posh hotel and spouts revolutionary catch phrases, but he is stirring the pot using the everyday language of the streets. Brand agitates, and it’s better to agitate than do nothing at all.

Brand has gotten a lot of shit for being a hypocrite and being a known “womanizer” flying high on his celebrity. But he never denies the hypocritical position he occupies. Brand pokes fun at himself all along the way. When he said that he took the assignment of editor for the New Statesman because “a pretty woman asked me,” clearly he is poking fun at himself and the Left media’s representation of him. It is ludicrous that people take this so seriously. Brand is obviously jibing the politically correct left who want to place everything in terms of race and gender while excluding consideration of class, as if somehow being a white man exempts someone from the underclass. Identity politics are just another form of Left Elitism. So what if Russell Brand likes women? So what if he fucks a new girl every week? Who’s to say they’re not enjoying it to? Sex happens. Focusing on Brand’s sexual activity as a reason to dismiss his overall message about class is just a sign of how identity politics are part and parcel of the problem, not part of the solution.

It’s not just Brand who has been reamed by the Left, Right and everyone in between, but more importantly Leftists who have taken Brand’s side have been put under the gun. It’s not surprising that the PoshLeft are so rigid and judgmental about Brand and anyone who supports Brand’s Brand of politicizing the masses since the PoshLeft is even less tolerant on many levels than the extreme Right. They criticize the Right Wing and they criticize any part of the Left that does not follow the rules of their elite club. As Brand states in his essay, “The right seeks converts and the left seeks traitors. This moral superiority that is peculiar to the left is a great impediment to momentum. It is also a right drag when you’re trying to enjoy a riot.”

I understand what it feels like to be against the wall and under the firing squad of the Posh Left. I am not part of them, nor will I ever be. I don’t fit the mold. Don’t hold the credentials. But I am as much a populist and political champion than the best and worst of the Posh Left. I have lived in the trenches, dug my way out, did my “book learning,” and helped a whole hell of a lot of underclass disenfranchised people in the process. I have been very “lucky” to gain some cultural capital that has put me on the map in some capacity. My writing has been published in books and journals internationally. I have articles in academic presses. I have been blessed by recognition for what I do by many people.

But being “under the radar” of the Left Elite (whether secular or academic) comes with a great deal of stress and tension. Class is hardwired into you. It doesn’t go away just because you transcend your origins. You don’t fit in with the people you came from, nor do you fit in with the place you occupy now. There is a constant sense of inferiority that can lead to actual physical anxiety, headaches, and nausea. Class is embodied, and it does not just leave the body because you publish a few articles. In fact, class tension is only amplified. I am much more anxious and unnerved by The Left than I am by The Right as I frequently feel literally tied in knots being under their scrutiny.

I have had to develop a pretty thick skin writing for CounterPunch. While the very large majority of the readers support my work for which I am grateful, there are always those left elitists who feel the need to “set me straight.” It’s funny how many of them feel compelled to sign their name with a “Dr” or “PhD” and include their academic position, just so they’re sure I understand that they are somehow more equipped to pontificate on class than I am. Who am I? I woman with an eighth grade education, who spent her teen years getting a “street education” and who eventually got a B.A. from UC Berkeley through sheer will and the strength to fight that I learned from my working class origins. Still, I have spent my whole adult life working day jobs to make ends meet while squeezing some writing out in between. Where are these academic leftists real life class credentials, the ones they got from life in the trenches and not the classroom?

I am the daughter of an ironworker, a child of the blue collar working class, yet these “class theorists” – the academic Left elites and their secular equivalents – somehow think that they understand class so much more than me or Russell Brand, because they have the credentials. Well they don’t understand. Their exclusionary practices make me feel sick, furious, and invisible all at once. The Left Elite is a society of privilege. They have had their way paved and paid, and their self-righteous approach to class doesn’t benefit anyone but themselves.

I guess I am lucky that my working class origins instilled in me an urgency to produce work as a way of surviving and not failing or falling back into the hole I climbed out of. I would guess that Russell Brand feels somewhat of the same pressure which is why he was able to “get out.” The pressure of our class origins doesn’t go away. I’m no Russell Brand, but my hard work writing and producing for all these years has given me some public presence as a writer and a thinker who has gotten some recognition from the Left. Interestingly this recognition and acknowledgment comes double-edged. On the one hand, I feel empowered that my hard work has given me a voice that people listen to. On the other, I constantly scrutinized by the Elite Left, and I feel self-doubt and “marked” by the class I came from despite what cultural capital I have attained.

Interestingly, Russell Brand’s essay and the debates that arose from it inspired me to embrace my own voice and feel empowered by my ability to have faith in myself, rise up and say “Fuck you oppressors!” And I’m not talking about the oppressors from the Right, but the Left Elitists who think they are the only ones who have a right to talk about class. I’m here to inform you that they are not. Russell Brand came from the lower classes, and fought his way out with a sense of humor. Even if he is rich and famous now, he has just as much right to talk about class as anyone else. And so do I. His words matter because they are words that people can understand. So are mine. Use the language of the people to speak to the people. Use pop culture to change culture. Fuck fear inspired by class. Fuck fear of failure. Fuck those who sit in their insulated clubs of privilege and criticize for the sake of criticizing. Russell Brand’s words are as valid as the next guy’s. They’ve got the street cred, book cred, and writing cred to go with them. And so do mine.
www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/08/russell-...e-politics-of-class/
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 14:09 #255

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Fuck those who sit in their insulated clubs of privilege and criticize for the sake of criticizing.

Mhhmmmm.....
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 14:15 #256

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So the information that anyone who is interested already knows or those who are not interested don't care about...


Why not start a Russel Brand woke me up thread.

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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 15:52 #257

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This 'waking up' thats referred to in such a way as being special, is only that way because of the ingrained media and dumbed down education thats led to a situation where people are so stupid that being aware of it is now actually a 'special' situation.

Most people are quite unaware of the tax advantages of being self employed for example, yet the information is openly available for anyone who cares to look, just as fractional reserve banking is not a secret either...its just not 'mainstream' the media rarely touch it, if at all.

RB has at least openly admitted he does not have any solutions, so he has at least been accurate and not in the least bit mystical or new agey in that respect.
Icke and Alex Jones pretend to have solutions but both basically talk a load of shit and both deliberately avoid ever mentioning the venus project which they both know about all too well, so thats them immediately on my shit list already.
I reserve judgement on RB as yet.
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 16:31 #258

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Well this 'waking up' or 'higher consciousness' is a form of snobbery imo.

To me wakening into higher consciousness is thus....
Consciousness is flexible so person one could become more aware in one or more aspects of the mind than person two, and likewise.
The illusion appears to be because someone feels enlightened about a new bit of awareness they think that this enlightenment is general, when in fact it's not general, it's localized to a particular realization that is partitioned from the rest of the minds development.

Consciousness is not made of sheet steel, it does not go up in a generalized manner it's much more flexible than that, so where one persons consciousness might be higher than anothers in one area of the mind., then it could be vice versa in other areas.

So it's quite odd that RB has experienced all his 'wakening' in unison, like one day it was all asleep, the next day all awake :conf:
No thanks. I don't like blubber
Last Edit: 11 Nov 2013 16:44 by Cousin_Frothy.
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 17:27 #259

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Russel Brand is an "entertainer", he just wants to expand his audience, he has a tour to sell, and his xmas videos, ffs.

Steve Hughes is the nearest thing to Hicks or Carlin now, and way funnier than Brand...IMHO.

Forget yesterday. It has already forgotten you.
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Russel Brand pwns Paxman 11 Nov 2013 17:33 #260

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People take notice of whats presented the most often in the media and RB is presented quite often.
Need I say more? :)

The closest TVP got to MSM coverage was a few minutes on RT news and decades ago an interview with Fresco.
Fresco saw all this coming way back then, beating every single name commonly mentioned as being some kind of 'guru' or being awakened.
He avoided all sorts of mumbo jumbo and quasi religious bollocks and of course got completely ignored. He wasn't sensational enough and was far too factual (uncomfortably so) for people to swallow it IMHO.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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