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Poll: Santa's sack

It's ok Bar 6 50%
It's not ok Bar 6 50%
Total number of voters: 12 ( dubmeup, entrangermercenary1, oioioi, angelchemuel, chandrakavi ) See more
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TOPIC: Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa?

Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 16:19 #181

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If you are either, you've done a great job this time :thumbup:

I hope feather changes his mind and returns sooner rather than later. I'll be completely honest and state some of my reasoning for actually agreeing with some of what rep said here.

You may or may not know, but I grew up in quite an abusive household. Much of the physical abuse I witnessed as a child - though it pains me to say it - has actually effected me somewhat in adulthood. Most of it was never directly aimed at me, but as I'm sure you can all imagine, it does still have an effect on children regardless. I am taking steps to deal with it but hopefully this goes some way to explaining my pov.

Whether or not it was referenced to Marx by someone pretending to be someone else, I found it interesting. It resonated with me so I spoke up, partly because I thought someone was being treated a little unfairly and partly because I found his pov quite interesting. I honestly did hesitate about posting, and that really is the first time I've felt the need to do that here.

I hope that fear of reappearances doesn't lead to this happening too frequently for any of you here. Speaking of breaks, I think it's really time I took one for myself too. I obviously still have some ground to cover.

I wish you all well and I honestly never meant for us to fall out over this. Good luck with everything and a very merry end of year to you all.

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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 16:21 #182

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kids should be heard but not seen and kids should be introduced to the apathy of mother nature from an early age.
kids should be told there is and isn't a santa claus. its a paradox. thats science, stupid.
my limbless friend will die alone
a torso of flesh upon the throne

Violence is not the answer, it is the question. the answer is yes.
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 16:35 #183

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Ab Origine wrote:
If you are either, you've done a great job this time :thumbup:

I hope feather changes his mind and returns sooner rather than later. I'll be completely honest and state some of my reasoning for actually agreeing with some of what rep said here.

You may or may not know, but I grew up in quite an abusive household. Much of the physical abuse I witnessed as a child - though it pains me to say it - has actually effected me somewhat in adulthood. Most of it was never directly aimed at me, but as I'm sure you can all imagine, it does still have an effect on children regardless. I am taking steps to deal with it but hopefully this goes some way to explaining my pov.

Whether or not it was referenced to Marx by someone pretending to be someone else, I found it interesting. It resonated with me so I spoke up, partly because I thought someone was being treated a little unfairly and partly because I found his pov quite interesting. I honestly did hesitate about posting, and that really is the first time I've felt the need to do that here.

I hope that fear of reappearances doesn't lead to this happening too frequently for any of you here. Speaking of breaks, I think it's really time I took one for myself too. I obviously still have some ground to cover.

I wish you all well and I honestly never meant for us to fall out over this. Good luck with everything and a very merry end of year to you all.

:grouphug:

I'm sorry to hear that Abs, and good on you for approaching it directly, of course it affects you, you would not be human if it didn't.
In my opinion most people have been abused as children, neglect, emotional and psychological abuse are just as harmful as physical and sexual abuse, not in my opinion but empirically as measured by brain scans and population data etc (references on page 4) . It takes a lot of courage and a lot of time to deal with this but until people accept that abusing children is never justified, until they first become angry about what happened to them, nothing will change.

I'd also urge you not to censor yourself for fear of upsetting people or cultural norms.
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 16:39 #184

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Freedomainradio has call in shows where the topic is often child abuse, it's not easy listening but I found it very helpful.
feeds.feedburner.com/FreedomainRadioVolume6
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 16:40 #185

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feather wrote:
5... I'm taking a few weeks out for now mate.
:hug: to all

:mad:

Ab Origine wrote:
Speaking of breaks, I think it's really time I took one for myself too.

:mad:


And just incase it needed pointing out again, nobody here has ever denied that child abuse is a serious and damaging thing, or have argued in its favour, despite Rep and IAAIA's best attempts to spin it that way, for fuck's sake!!!

:mad:
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Last Edit: 21 Dec 2013 16:49 by Gilly.
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 16:44 #186

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Hang on a mo......

Everyone's taking a break instead of gathering at chrimble?

You're all going on SZanta's naughty list now!

Especially you SB :P
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 16:50 #187

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oioioi wrote:
Hang on a mo......

Everyone's taking a break instead of gathering at chrimble?

You're all going on SZanta's naughty list now!

Especially you SB :P

Yes, especially SB! :mad:





:D
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 16:53 #188

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Gilly wrote:
feather wrote:
5... I'm taking a few weeks out for now mate.
:hug: to all

:mad:

Ab Origine wrote:
Speaking of breaks, I think it's really time I took one for myself too.

:mad:


And just incase it needed pointing out again, nobody here has ever denied that child abuse is a serious and damaging thing, or have argued in its favour, despite Rep and IAAIA's best attempts to spin it that way, for fuck's sake!!!

:mad:

They're both still online, if we get a couple of quick nude selfies posted up with strategically placed mistletoe we may just lure them back!
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 16:55 #189

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Well if they're taking a few weeks off, I'm going to be horrid to everyone all round the forum just for spite. It'll be their doing. :devilgirl:
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 16:58 #190

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I'll start with you Oioi, since you're here.

Get that bowler hat off, you look a prat! Nobody wears bowlers unless they're prats.
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 17:11 #191

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I've tied feather to a chair out back, so if you hurry, you should be able to get to him before he gnaws his own legs off to escape.

It was rather difficult to strip him as he's surprisingly strong for someone with no arms.

Pictures are available upon request if you happen to miss the real deal out back. :coffee:
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Last Edit: 21 Dec 2013 17:11 by Abs.
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 17:25 #192

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This is all very strange.
No-one here has said anything whatso-er to defwnd abuse.
One person has suggested that smacking at any time = abuse. A view some (including me) disagree with.
That person is gonna maintain that view, as is their prerogative. Despite examples being offered of where a smack is diametrically opposite to abuse. (as i said, this is not to endorse smacking as a day to day discipline)
That person insists that it is others who are stuck in their ways :roll:
I consider their insistence that anyone who has ever smacked a child is a child abuser who has destroyed their child, to be abusive. Abusive in the here and now.
Albeit not on the same scale as a wife beater or neglectful mum.

And folk are going on sabbaticals over it? I suggest maybe just go have fun in a more sensible thread?
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 17:36 #193

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knobmeup wrote:
This is all very strange.
No-one here has said anything whatso-er to defwnd abuse.
One person has suggested that smacking at any time = abuse. A view some (including me) disagree with.
That person is gonna maintain that view, as is their prerogative. Despite examples being offered of where a smack is diametrically opposite to abuse. (as i said, this is not to endorse smacking as a day to day discipline)
That person insists that it is others who are stuck in their ways :roll:
I consider their insistence that anyone who has ever smacked a child is a child abuser who has destroyed their child, to be abusive. Abusive in the here and now.
Albeit not on the same scale as a wife beater or neglectful mum.

And folk are going on sabbaticals over it? I suggest maybe just go have fun in a more sensible thread?

How can you claim that an adult hitting a child is not abusive?
Have you attempted to read the references I presented to support the fact that hitting children causes damage?
Do you understand that this is not my opinion versus your opinion, as if we were discussing our favourite colour? I have presented many good scientific and epidemiological references to back up my claim.
You are objectively wrong.
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 17:48 #194

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Being a strict mother can be good for children as long as the discipline is tempered with a little love and affection, the researchers claim.

But parenting groups and charities have reacted angrily to the findings, maintaining that a child can suffer long term damage from physical discipline.

The study of teenagers, published in the journal Parenting: Science and Practice, found the painful effects of harsh discipline - such as verbal threats or spanking - are offset by the child's feeling of being loved.

The researchers said being punished is unlikely to result in antisocial behaviour further down the line, as long as the child believes their punishment is coming from “a good place”.

Smacking is controversial and has been found to carry a greater risk of manifesting aggression, delinquency and hyperactivity - but authors claims this can be moderated.
Related Articles

Let parents smack their children just as I did, says Justice Secretary Chris Grayling
03 Feb 2013

Smacking children may increase risk of cancer
12 Nov 2012

So, smacking kids is wrong – and doping them is right?
03 Feb 2013

Mother's Day 2013: 'To my shame, I have smacked my children'
10 Mar 2013

In Britain parents are not explicitly banned from smacking their children, but under the current law it is illegal to inflict injuries causing more than a temporary reddening of the skin.

The research will fuel the debate and the parental concern over the best way of bringing up children.

Jeremy Todd, chief executive of charity Family Lives said: “We would never endorse smacking as we feel that there are much better ways to communicate with a child.

“Parents who contact us say that smacking comes as a reaction, it is not a controlled moment. They often speak of their regrets; it is not something they feel good about. We would not support the research.”

The team from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York studied a group of Mexican-American adolescents and found having a loving mother - or the “perception of maternal warmth” - protected against antisocial behaviour.

The perception resulted in a positive relationship between harsh discipline and the way they way that the child dealt with problems in later life.

Dr Miguelina German, lead author, explained “attachment theory” holds that warm, responsive parenting is the critical factor in producing happy, secure children.

The underlying belief that their parents love them protects against feelings of rejection, even when being harshly disciplined, she said, and the discipline it does not automatically result in antisocial behaviour.

"The relationship between the two is conditional and subject to other factors,” she said, noting that restrictive disciples are the cultural norm in Latino culture.

“There are always other influences at play that can lessen their potential harm on the young child.”

However, a spokesperson for the NSPCC who have campaigned for the practice to be illegal, said: “Smacking is not an effective form of punishment and undermines the trusting relationship between a child and their carer.

“And it just teaches children to be violent. Young people tell us smacking leaves them feeling upset but often doesn’t deter them from doing what they were smacked for. We want to help parents use other more constructive methods to teach their children the difference between right and wrong.”

Previous research has found children are more likely to grow into well adjusted adults if their parents are firm disciplinarians.

Traditional “authoritative” parenting, combining high expectations of behaviour with warmth and sensitivity, leads to more “competent” children, according to the 2009 study by researchers from London's Institute of Education.

Justine Roberts, Mumsnet Founder, said: "Obviously smacking 'from a good place' is preferable to smacking 'from a bad place' but broadly Mumsnet users believe it's better not to use violence not least because it feels hypocritical to tell children one thing about hitting others, yet practice another."
www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10...ed-study-claims.html

Science, it needs a good slap.
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 18:08 #195

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“When Dr. Vincent Felitti, head of the Department of Preventive Medicine at Kaiser Permanente in San Diego, began to delve into the reasons for the high dropout rate of patients who'd been successfully losing weight in Kaiser’s obesity program, he found to his surprise that a high proportion of those dropping out had histories of childhood abuse or neglect. Dr. Robert Anda, who had been doing research with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on the psychosocial origins of health-risk behaviors in patients at VA hospitals, heard Felitti speak about his findings, and in 1992 the two began to collaborate on the largest-scale study to date of the incidence and effects of childhood trauma, known as the Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Study.
According to data collected from the over 17,000 Kaiser patients in this ongoing retrospective and prospective study, adverse childhood experiences, though well concealed, are unexpectedly common, have a profound negative effect on adult health and well-being a half century later, and are a prime determinant of adult health status in the United States.”
www.cavalcadeproductions.com/ace-study.html
www.acestudy.org/download

THE NEUROBIOLOGY OF HOW FEARS ARE STORED IN DISSOCIATED ALTERS
Schore, Le Doux and other neurobiologsts provide massive evidence that the neural circuitry of the infant’s fear system is located in the right brain in two main affect regulators: the prefrontal cortex (the regulator) and the amygdala (the fear system.)85 When children experience maternal abandonment fears and maternal abuse, they release cortisol, which shuts down their prefrontal cortex and makes their amygdala hyperactive, “indelibly imprinting, burning in” the memory of the threatening mother in their amygdalan module.86 “The role of the amygdala is to remember a threat,

Fig. 3-4 Areas of the Brain

generalize it to other possible threats, and carry it into the future.”87 “Human subjects whose brains were electrically stimulated in the region of the amygdala reported a sense of being reprimanded by an authority.”88 Only major dangers imprint themselves in dissociated form in the amygdala.89 Amygdalae of insecurely attached children are hyperactive and larger than those of securely attached children, plus their prefrontal cortices are smaller, and so they are less able to control their fears, angers and other irrational emotional reactions in response to later interpersonal difficulties.90 As LeDoux puts it, “They are probably with us for life.”91
psychohistory.com/originsofwar/03_psychology_neurobiology.html
This paper proposes that most violence has its roots in early childhood abuse and neglect. Whether it is a question of adolescent gang violence, adults fighting in a bar, wife and child abuse, or acts of terrorism, the origins of violence lie in abusing and shaming children. If we wish to live in a peaceful world where we are able to mature emotionally and relate to each other with empathy and compassion, the need to provide a safe, nurturing environment for all children should be our highest priority.

Recent brain imaging surveys and other neurobiological research show that child abuse and neglect can cause permanent damage to the neural structure and function of the still developing brain of the child (Teicher, M., 2002, pp.68-75).

primal-page.com/childabu.htm

A difficult childhood reduces life expectancy by 20 years among adults who experienced six or more particular types of abuse or household dysfunction as kids, while those who suffered fewer types of trauma lost fewer years of life, a large-scale epidemiological study finds.
www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?i...ancy-abuse-mortality
"Even minimal amounts of spanking can lead to an increased likelihood in antisocial behavior by children....This study provides further methodologically rigorous support for the idea that corporal punishment is not an effective or appropriate disciplinary strategy." 2

They found that:
"Among white non-Hispanic children but not among black and Hispanic children, spanking frequency before age 2 is significantly and positively associated with child behavior problems at school age." 4
A study, based on a national survey on mental health, found that physical punishment in childhood is associated with an increased rate of major depression and alcohol abuse or dependence later in life. Physical punishment was defined in the study as minor assault such as being slapped, spanked, pushed, or shoved.

The study also found that physical abuse, defined as including being kicked, hit with an object, beaten up or choked, was also associated with these and other psychiatric disorders. 5
The PubMed abstract states:
"Physical punishment, as a means of disciplining children, may be considered a mild form of childhood adversity. Although many outcomes of physical punishment have been investigated, little attention has been given to the impact of physical punishment on later adult psychopathology. Also, it has been stated that physical punishment by a loving parent is not associated with negative outcomes; however, this theory has not been empirically tested with regard to psychiatric disorders. The main objective of the present study was to investigate three categories of increasing severity of childhood adversity (no physical punishment or abuse, physical punishment only, and child abuse) to examine whether the childhood experience of physical punishment alone was associated with adult psychopathology, after adjusting for sociodemographic variables and parental bonding dimensions. 

METHODS: Data were drawn from the nationally representative National Comorbidity Survey (NCS, n=5,877; age 15-54 years; response rate 82.4%). Binary logistic and multinomial logistic regression models were used to determine the odds of experiencing psychiatric disorders. 

RESULTS: Physical punishment was associated with increased odds of major depression (AOR=1.22; 95% CI=1.01-1.48), alcohol abuse/dependence (AOR=1.32; 95% CI=1.08-1.61), and externalizing problems (AOR=1.30; 95% CI=1.05-1.60) in adulthood after adjusting for sociodemographic variables and parental bonding dimensions. Individuals experiencing physical punishment only were at increased odds of adult psychopathology compared to those experiencing no physical punishment/abuse and at decreased odds when compared to those who were abused.
CONCLUSIONS: Physical punishment is a mild form of childhood adversity that shows an association with adult psychopathology. 6

Co-author John Frank, director of Scottish Collaboration for Public Health Research and Policy, said:
"This finding, if replicated in other studies, suggests that patients known to have experienced child abuse or neglect should have their cardiovascular risk factors managed somewhat more aggressively than other persons, since they are at greater risk. ... Like many previous studies linking early life characteristics and experiences with late life serious disease, this study does not explain precisely how such links operate, biologically; further research will be required to understand that process." 7
www.religioustolerance.org/spankin29.htm

The case against spanking:
There are many arguments against spanking:

It is ineffective: Spanking a child will stop the child from misbehaving for the moment, but studies have shown that the child's compliance will only last for a short time; corporal punishment actually increases the child's non-compliant behavior in the future. Psychologist H. Stephen Glenn said
"Corporal punishment is the least effective method [of discipline]. Punishment reinforces a failure identity. It reinforces rebellion, resistance, revenge and resentment. And, what people who spank children will learn is that it teaches more about you than it does about them that the whole goal is to crush the child. It's not dignified, and it's not respectful." 1

It may trigger criminal, anti-social, violent, aggressive behavior later in life: A longitudinal study of 442 boys born in 1972, found that one out of every three boys -- those who have a specific version of a gene -- who was maltreated during childhood will be almost certain to exhibit anti-social or criminal behavior as an adult. Maltreatment was defined as including physical abuse. If this is true for boys subjected to physical abuse, one wonders if the violence associated with conventional levels of corporal punishment could also trigger some level of violent or aggressive behavior later in life?  Unfortunately, researchers do not yet know what level of violence is needed to trigger the negative adult behavior. It can be argued that, in the absence of precise data, parents should err on the side of caution and avoid spanking at all costs. More details


It has been linked to many adult problems. Corporal punishment studies have linked spanking during childhood to higher levels of adult depression, psychiatric problems, and addictions. Another study shows that children who were spanked have a lower IQ when compared to children whose parents used other methods of discipline and control.


It can escalate to abuse: Because a spanking works for a while, the parent often repeats the spanking whenever the child misbehaves. Corporal punishment may then become a standard response to any misbehavior. This can lead to increasingly frequent and harsher spanking which can  exceed the "reasonable force" threshold and become abuse. According to the Institute for the Prevention of Child Abuse, "85% of all cases of physical abuse result from some form of over-discipline through the use of corporal punishment". Each year about 44 Canadian children are known to have been killed by family members; 35 of them by parents. The figures for the United States are probably about 10 times higher.


It can unintentionally cause serious physical damage:

Boxing on the ear can burst an eardrum.

Shaking can cause a concussion, whiplash, blindness, serious brain damage, or even death.

Spanking can injure muscles, the sciatic nerve, pelvis, coccyx (tail bone), genitals or spine.

Hitting a child's hands can injure bones, blood vessels, joints and ligaments; it can induce premature osteoarthritis.

A child who is hit can accidentally fall and seriously injure themselves.


It trains a child to use violence: Spanking can teach children that it is acceptable for the strong to use force against the weak -- the concept "Might makes right" is regularly reinforced. They have an increased likelihood of becoming more aggressive towards their siblings, their fellow students, and (later in life) against their spouses and their own children. Violence as a way of behaving is a learned response.


Slapping or any other type of force used on the buttocks is a sexual violation: The buttocks are an erogenous zone of the human body. Their nerve system is connected to the body's sexual nerve centers. Slapping them can involuntarily trigger feelings of sexual pleasure which become mixed with the pain. This can lead to confusion in the child's mind which influences the way in which they express their sexuality as adults.


Spanking may lower a child's IQ: A study at the University of New Hampshire, released in 1998-JUL, found that spanking children apparently slows down their intellectual development. 3 A study of 960 children found an average 4 point reduction in IQ among students, from and average IQ of 102 (above average) for children who are not spanked, to an average IQ 98 (below average) for who are. A reduction of 4 points is enough to have a significant negative functional effect on the students. However, these studies only show a correlation between spanking and lower IQ. It does not prove a cause-and-effect relationship. More information


Spanking creates fear in the child: Irvin Wolkoff wrote:
"The message a toddler gets from a slap or spanking is that a parent or other loved and trusted adult is prepared to induce pain and even do physical harm to force unquestioning obedience. That's terrifying to a little kid...However well-intentioned, a slap registers as the shattering of the whole deal between parent and child. Young children are left awash in feelings of fear, shame, rage, hostility, self-destructiveness and betrayal that they can't yet resolve or manage." 2
www.religioustolerance.org/spankin4.htm#neg

Some 66% of participants reported one or more type of abuse. Physical abuse and verbal abuse were most strongly associated with body weight and obesity. Compared with no physical abuse (55%), being 'often hit and injured' (2.5%) had a 4.0 kg (95% confidence interval: 2.4-5.6 kg) higher weight and a 1.4 (1.2-1.6) relative risk (RR) of body mass index (BMI) > or = 30. Compared with no verbal abuse (53%), being 'often verbally abused' (9.5%) had an RR of 1.9 (1.3-2.7) for BMI > or = 40. The abuse associations were not mutually independent, however, because the abuse types strongly co-occurred. Obesity risk increased with number and severity of each type of abuse. The population attributable fraction for 'any mention' of abuse (67%) was 8% (3.4-12.3%) for BMI > or = 30 and 17.3% (-1.0-32.4%) for BMI > or = 40.
CONCLUSIONS:
Abuse in childhood is associated with adult obesity. If causal, preventing child abuse may modestly decrease adult obesity. Treatment of obese adults abused as children may benefit from identification of mechanisms that lead to maintenance of adult obesity.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12119573

Children who are physically abused may be at increased risk of developing cancer later in life. These results were published in Cancer.

Abuse during childhood has been linked with chronic health problems in adulthood. Relatively few studies have considered the risk of cancer in survivors of child abuse, but a study published in 1998 suggested that there could be a link.[1]
To further explore the relationship between child abuse and later risk of cancer, researchers evaluated a subset of information from the 2005 Canadian Community Health Survey.[2] Information was available from 13,092 respondents.
The analysis focused only on physical abuse.

news.cancerconnect.com/17196/

Adverse childhood experiences are strongly related to ever drinking alcohol and to alcohol initiation in early and mid adolescence, and the ACE score had a graded or "dose-response" relationship to these alcohol use behaviors. The persistent graded relationship between the ACE score and initiation of alcohol use by age 14 for four successive birth cohorts dating back to 1900 suggests that the stressful effects of ACEs transcend secular changes, including the increased availability of alcohol, alcohol advertising, and the recent campaigns and health education programs to prevent alcohol use. These findings strongly suggest that efforts to delay the age of onset of drinking must recognize the contribution of multiple traumatic and stressful events to alcohol-seeking behavior among children and adolescents.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16549308?ord...les&logdbfrom=pubmed

We found a strong graded relationship between the breadth of exposure to abuse or household dysfunction during childhood and multiple risk factors for several of the leading causes of death in adults.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9635069?ordi...les&logdbfrom=pubmed

Early life trauma, particularly child abuse, has been associated with aberrations in hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis functioning in adulthood. However, the relationship of early abuse and later adult neuroendocrine changes may be moderated by additional factors such as comorbid psychopathology and recent life stress. Parental exposure to child abuse may have transgenerational effects, with offspring of abuse victims showing similar neuroendocrine profiles as their mothers. The majority of previous studies in this area focus on adult offspring, and the degree to which the effects of parental child abuse can be detected earlier in the development of the offspring remains obscure.

Maternal childhood abuse was associated with HPA axis function in both the mother and the infant during the postpartum period.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19931984?ito...DocSum&ordinalpos=18

The researchers suggest that people attempt to cope with the anger, anxiety and depression related to ACEs by engaging in health risk behaviors such as smoking, alcohol and other drug use, overeating and sexual behaviors. Thus, these health risk behaviors are actually personal solutions that become serious public health problems, including mental illness, substance abuse and a variety of life-threatening medical issues.

www.thefreelibrary.com/Adverse+childhood...haviors.-a0202360686
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 18:08 #196

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Yes but according to rep, restricting access to toys is also abusive too - and generally imposing your will on them. But he's notably never yet answered the question of what he'd do to cope with a kid's refusal to be reasoned with. Still waiting for an answer.

Presumably, since imposition of the parent's rules is abusive, he'd let them run riot.

As stated previously, that's neglectful and shitty parentlng (it's not even parenting at all in fact) in my book and will lead to all kinds of psychological damage and social problems from the child thinking there are no boundaries.
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 18:13 #197

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Gilly wrote:
Yes but according to rep, restricting access to toys is also abusive too - and generally imposing your will on them. But he's notably never yet answered the question of what he'd do to cope with a kid's refusal to be reasoned with. Still waiting for an answer.

Presumably, since imposition of the parent's rules is abusive, he'd let them run riot.

As stated previously, that's neglectful and shitty parentlng (it's not even parenting at all in fact) in my book and will lead to all kinds of psychological damage and social problems from the child thinking there are no boundaries.

I don't accept your presumption that a child that was not abused would be unreasonable.
But, what would I do with anybody who refuses to be reasoned with?
Should I give them a slap, or lock them in a room, take away their TV?

If you think that not physically abusing children will " lead to all kinds of psychological damage and social problems", PLEASE PRESENT SOME EVIDENCE!
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 18:24 #198

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I just presented the scenario of a small kid walking out in front of a car and getting a slap, to my ten year old.

Guess what he said...

It doesn't eactly fit with rep's dogma theory :roll:
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 18:25 #199

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I was spanked.

I've got a high IQ.

I've never hit a partner.

Only ever thrown one punch aged 9.

But science says......
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Is it OK to lie to your kids about Santa? 21 Dec 2013 18:29 #200

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oioioi wrote:
I was spanked.

I've got a high IQ.

Not high enough to realise that it's irrelevant obviously.
oioioi wrote:
I've never hit a partner.
Good for you.
Would you hit your children?
oioioi wrote:
Only ever thrown one punch aged 9.

The earth still reverberates with it's force even 50 years later.
Last Edit: 21 Dec 2013 18:29 by Reptired.
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