Well lets look at the evidence...i was aware early this year that my dads memory and physical body[loss of muscle] was being affected by something so we my dad and i decided that he'd better come off the statin drug Avorstatin ie Lipitor...that was last summer and he became himself again,more alert and energetic....however his GP realised he wasnt having his repeat statin prescriptions so invited him to the surgery and told him he was being very naughty by not taking the statins so my dad started them last september...then on the 7th november he had a bleed on the brain stroke...rushed into hospital where they immediately took him off Avorstatin.Anyway started doing some research into statins and found out that it depletes a substance called COQ10 that is very important to the cells in the brain and body..in two countries canada and japan its considered medical malpractice not to prescribe COQ10 when you take statins...and in the 1980's Merck patented a statin drug that combined coq10 but it was never followed through..surprise,surprise! sort of admitting that statins destroy coq10 i guess.

Anyway while in hospital he was drugged up to the eyeballs with codiene and paracetomols...given a blood pressure drug called Amlodipine and then later given an anti depressant called Citalopram..when i got him home 4 weeks later i managed to get him off all these despite terrible auguements with family members and heated rows with the GP's...he is now making a good recovery and is just on one drug Finisteride for enlarged prostrate.

I monitor his blood pressure every day now and had my blood pressure machine checked at the local chemist to see if it was accurate because every time the physiotherapist checks his blood pressure its always 20pts higher...both the chemists and my blood pressure machine gave the same reading so confirms mine is correct and physio's is wrong but he doesnt seem to agree and is now trying to get my dads GP to get him on blood pressure tablets again.Social services have said he his vunerable and will not now talk to me because i go against the GP.

I'm not qualified to speak about the subjects you mention but i can empathise with you and your father.

It's no help i know but i don't want to come across as ignorant or uncaring by ignoring your important post but having time to be flippant on other threads.

I must add though i have seen people being slowly poisoned by prescription drugs given by GP's.

You might try Citizen's Advice re liason with social services. Whether they acknowledge you or not, you do have a say in any treatments, as ofc, does your dad.

They could put you in touch with some sort of advocacy service, if anything, and certainly might have some useful legal info for you both.

Am on me mobile at the mo but will fire up the laptop and get on it tomorrow. I know there are many good forums dedicated to just this sort of thing. I've had cause to look. I'll go looking again.
I'll say this for now. Don't fall into the trap of taking your eye off the ball. That being your dad having a life free of pharma toxin from now on. Some drugs are necessary ofc (caveat).
Proving statins caused his stroke is a whole different thing and if it jeapordises the chances of his continued better health, it's not worth pursuing in my book. Maybe worth a thought.

I'm sorry to hear about your dad, Coates. I'd love to be able to help with good advice, but sadly my knowledge is insufficient. I know you can buy COQ10 over the counter, and have read that your body can become deplete in it as a consequence of aging.

It's confusing to know sometimes whether symptoms are caused by the ailment or the bloody medication, and a lot of dr's seem to be blase & inept, which is infuriating. I'm on Amlodipine and Losartan for high blood pressure, and don't know whether the extreme fatigue I seem to feel constantly is a result of an ailment I'm waiting for treatment for, or is actually caused by those drugs - and the dr's won't acknowledge that it's either (twats have tried more than once to put me on Prozac in response to my complaining about it) though according to info I've read on the net it could be either or both.

Re the blood pressure anomaly, I wondered whether you've taken your monitor and checked it immediately after his bp test performed by the physio? The reading can be a few points different within a very short space of time, but 20 points is too big a difference if one test is right after the other, and would prove faulty equipment. But if you've not done that yet, be aware that a regularly higher reading when he's with the physio could be caused by his stress levels being elevated in that environment.

I just wish your dad well and hope that he can feel better.

Hi coates.
I can empathise with you and your dad's predicament. My mum died last year of alzheimers and she had been put on statins after a stroke caused the early stages of her dementia.

I would like to suggest that you look into coconut oil. I don't want to go into too much 'scientific' explanations here. But being a health practitioner I would urge you to look into it pronto.

As to the blood pressure, it is very likely that your dads blood pressure would go up knowing that he is going to have a visit from the physio. I have seen this happen very often with clients over the years, especially as they get older.

As to his drugs....get prescriptions re-newed...but flush the bastards down the loo.....especially once you see the difference coconut oil makes......play them at their own game. I can speak from personal experience about coconut oil...it's brilliant...I just wish I had known about it all those years ago for my mum . Besides loads of other physical stuff it does, it provides the right enzymes to improve the neuro cortex function of the brain, which statins have been proven to destroy, and is actually more efficient than COQ10.

to you and your dad

Gilly wrote:
thanks for reply...one question regards Amlodipine...my dad took it at home for about 5 days and kept waking up drenched in sweat,his sheets, duvet and pillow all very damp..do you get this? i complained to a doctor on 111 and he advised to take them off him...no more sweats!

YES i took blood pressure reading within 2 minutes of physios...this was at home by the way.

angelchemuel wrote:
hi,thanks for your good advice,yes ive got coconut oil but my dad is abit of a wus and doesnt like the taste so difficult to get him to take it...found out that the best form of coq10 is ubiquonol especially for those over 60 but its quite expensive

humanspirit wrote:

yeah but a point worth mentioning is that you dont need to be 'qualified' to have an informed opinion...most qualified GPs have been trained to accept pharmaceutical biased studies and get incentives to prescribe their drugs so i'd take the qualified advice of a GP with a pinch of salt

Hi coates. I take it the coconut you have is solid at room temperature and comes in a jar/tub?
He only needs to take a teaspoon morning and night. I didn't like it at first, but got used to it by about day 3.
See if you can add it to say his cereal in the morning maybe? Stick it in a jacket potato, or let it melt over his peas. Just get a little imaginative with it.
For his blood pressure, get some Lavender oil and just put a drop on his pillow every night and you should see his blood pressure come down within the week. . I can't use it long term as I already have low blood pressure and if I use it for a week my blood pressure drops through the floor! I didn't think about it when I used it as I was treating my boy when he was tiny for a cold and I put it on the pillow every night to stop his night coughs and he was sleeping with me. By low I mean mine dropped to 75/40!

angelchemuel wrote:
Hi, i'll stick some in his porridge..i tend to take it hard out of the fridge ,think it tastes better cold...his blood pressure varies between 120 and 160 but usually around 135/140 which i think isnt too bad..thanks for the tip i'll try abit of lavender on his pillow tonight.

coates wrote:
Yes, I do have really bad night fevers - especially my head. My hair looks like I've just stepped out of the shower. But as I said, as much as it could be the tablets, it could equally be the other medical issues (parathyroid & possibly thyroid problems) and / or the menopause as it's symptomatic of all those things.

I've been switched about between different bp tablets, just because others didn't do the trick, and the fever hasn't been alleviated.

So did they just take him off them without a replacement medicine? I've been told that if I just miss a day's dosage it makes you very vulnerable to heart-attack or stroke.

But frankly, I think they talk a lot of shite.
.

Gilly wrote:
yes no replacement tablet... his blood pressure isnt high anyway so dont know why they put him on it unless it was because of a precaution having had the stroke..not sure if statins can cause a bleed on the brain so looking into it more

Apparently they can.

Statins Raise Stroke Risk

Anyone who has had the type of stroke caused by bleeding in the brain should avoid the cholesterol-lowering drugs known as statins, according to researchers. The drugs increase the risk of a second stroke in these patients...

articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/arch...ise-stroke-risk.aspx

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110110164746.htm

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110819092427.htm

www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/11/us-st...dUSTRE70A06C20110111

There's a lot more out there.

That BP doesn't seem bad to me either. Do you mind if I ask how old your dad is? Totally understand that you might not want to say. Also, what is the dystolic reading?
Porrige will be good...he shouldn't taste it at all in that!
Lavender...please make sure you don't drip more than 3 drops....otherwise it becomes a stimulant at night!....not a lot of people know that!

angelchemuel wrote:
My dad is 84 and was driving a car before the stroke,he looks very young for his age and also believes dr judy wood is right about 911 ...his cholestoral level was 5.5 when they put him on statins again...my research now indicates that too low cholestoral level can contribute to a bleed on the brain..i probably will sue the GP for medical malpractice..there is enough evidence and my dad could do with the dosh

Can cholesterol levels be too low? From the standpoint of heart health, probably not. On the other hand, unusually low levels of cholesterol could undermine the body in other areas, including the brain, liver, and digestive system.

But there is a chicken-and-egg aspect to this problem, which scientists have been sorting through for at least two decades. Sometimes low cholesterol causes harm; other times, it simply seems to be a result of an existing disease. It can provide benefits in one area and do harm in another.

For example, over a long period, very low cholesterol levels increase the odds of hemorrhagic stroke, which occurs when a blood vessel ruptures and bleeds into the brain. Such strokes are more likely in individuals with low cholesterol levels because blood with small amounts of cholesterol does not clot as easily. However, and ischemic stroke (which is far more prevalent) occurs when clots or other material blocks blood flow to the brain -- cholesterol is a major source of such blockages.

Cholesterol also plays a role in brain function. It appears that insufficient brain cholesterol hinders the action of serotonin, a chemical that carries messages between brain cells and that is closely associated with mood. Abnormally low cholesterol levels have been linked to depression and anxiety.

I should think any malpractice claim would be tricky because of that kind of problem.

It's worth asking one of the companies now advertising in that field for advice on whether there's a claim worth making. Check if their services are underwritten though.

What you may have not been told about Cholesterol lowering medications (statin drugs)

back to HealthRead Back to Statins

The Statin drugs which lower cholesterol, among the most prescribed medications currently, (Lipitor, Zocor, Prevastatin et al) caused cancer in the rat studies EVEN WHEN GIVEN IN THE SAME DOSAGE AS USUALLY PRESCRIBED TO HUMANS.
In an excellent and highly informative review article published in 2009, Wainwright et al. [43] developed a strong argument that Statin drugs, by depleting cholesterol, lead to a destabilization of cell membranes "from head to toe." This problem, in turn, increases risk to a long list of serious health conditions and diseases, including diabetes, multiple sclerosis, cognitive problems, hemorrhagic stroke, cancer, and even ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, also known commonly as Lou Gehrig's disease). Their arguments are backed up by references to 85 peer-reviewed journal publications. (1)

These medications are hard on the liver, undermining liver cells for their action. They also can cause muscle weakness and other side effects.
Statins have also been shown to reduce the relative risk of heart attacks in men in their 50's by as much as 30%, but, because heart attacks are relatively rare for this segment of the population, the absolute risk reduction is only on the order of 2%, a point that is often missed by the person being treated. (ibid)


Several studies have suggested no link between cholesterol levels and heart attacks i.e. many who have heart attacks, HAVE NORMAL CHOLESTEROL LEVELS. (The disclaimer for the Lipitor TV commercial states that Lipitor has NOT been proven effective at preventing heart attack.)
Also what we've heard i.e. that Statin drugs prevent heart attacks by reducing "inflammation" (one theory is that heart attacks are partially caused by inflammation) has been debunked by several studies including the MS studies on two of the Statin drugs - they found that while the Statin drugs suppressed the immune system, they also suppressed proteins that protect people against inflammation and autoimmune attacks specifically the protein "interleukin-10" (International Immunopharmacology, 2009;9:153-7)

The pharmaceutical companies have detailed profiles on what drugs doctors are prescribing and sometimes have been known to reward them for prescribing certain medications.

British medical providers are apparently less prone to prescribe Statin drugs to those who have not had heart attacks. To overcome this, some of the pharmaceutical companies will begin to offer Statin drugs "over the counter" hoping to get more customers from the healthy population.

There are many studies on the cholesterol lowering medications: See Stopped Our Statins website - very enlightening.

CoEnzyme Q10 suppressed by statin drugs (1), (3)


Coenzyme Q10 is found naturally in the body. Lower blood levels of this coenzyme have been found in individuals with certain types of cancer.

Coenzyme Q10 was first identified in 1957. Its chemical structure was determined in 1958. Interest in coenzyme Q10 as a potential treatment for cancer began in 1961, when a deficiency of the enzyme was noted in the blood of cancer patients. Low blood levels of coenzyme Q10 have been found in patients with myeloma, lymphoma, and cancers of the breast, lung, prostate, pancreas, colon, kidney, and head and neck.

While coenzyme Q10 may show indirect anticancer activity through its effect(s) on the immune system, there is evidence to suggest that analogs of this compound can suppress cancer growth directly. Analogs of coenzyme Q10 have been shown to inhibit the proliferation of cancer cells in vitro and the growth of cancer cells transplanted into rats and mice.

Certain lipid-lowering drugs, such as the "statins" (Lovastatin, Pravastatin, and Simvastatin) and Gemfibrozil, as well as oral agents that lower blood sugar, such as glyburide and tolazamide), cause a decrease in serum levels of coenzyme Q10 and reduce the effects of coenzyme Q10 supplementation (3)

The lowered levels of Coenzyme Q10 may be a major factor in the Statins being a contributing factor to cancers.

Higher Risk of Brain Bleed
Lipitor has been observed to raise the risk for brain bleeds (hemorrhagic stroke) - There is a 20% survival rate from this type of brain bleed. Even if the risk is small, taking this risk may be like playing Russian Roulette. (6)

Statin induced Cardiomypathy

"I see 2-3 cases of Statin induced cardiomyopathy a week" states the cardiologist whose paper is up on the FDA website. Dr Langsjoen feels this is due to a shortage in CoEnzyme Q10 which is caused by the statin drugs. As he explains there is a slight advantage to these drugs in heart patients as they have some anti-inflammatory effects but the side effects far outweigh the slight advantage. (4)

Zocor tested as immuno-suppressant by the MS Society (2003-2011)


"Oral drugs used to lower cholesterol, called statins, were shown in test tubes to INHIBIT IMMUNE RESPONSES of cells taken from individuals with MS. This study was previously reported by Dr Oliver Newhaus (Karl-Franzens-University at Graz, Austria) and colleagues at the April 2002 meeting of the American academy of Neurology, and now has been published in the October 8, 2002 issue of Neurology."

"Although Statins were shown capable of INHIBITING SEVERAL DIFFERENT IMMUNE RESPONSES and markers of inflammations typically involved in MS, THEY ALSO STIMULATED THE RELEASE OF SOME PROTEINS KNOWN TO **INCREASE** inflammation."

"Clinical trials will be necessary to determine whether statin drugs may benefit individuals with MS. There is already one small-scale trial of ZOCOR under way in 32 people who have relapsing-remitting MS. This trial is taking place at the Medical University of South Carolina (Charleston), in Yale University (New Haven, CT) and at the U of Colorado Health Sciences Center (Denver). Other studies are under consideration at this time."

Source: "MS Connection", Fall 2002

By 2011, several studies had been done on Zocor with some positive results as a result of suppressing the immune system (with Zocor) (5)

Higher incidence of cancer in those taking statin drugs (2-2003)


A trial which randomized over 5000 at risk elderly patients over a 3 year period (double blind, placebo controlled) showed a 25 percent greater incidence of cancer in those patients taking Pravacol (Pravastatin).

The researcher called this "probably chance" since the statin drugs are "so safe" (?) a conclusion I find it difficult to understand - all the rat trials showed a high incidence of cancer, so this increased incidence in the trial seems a no brainer to me! A physician not a part of the research did say that they should "watch" and see if this shows up again. (Obviously he didn't quite buy the "chance" theory!)

Dr James Shephard - study reported at opening session of the American Heart Assoc, 2003
source: "Internal Medicine News" - Vol 36, no. 3, Feb 1, 2003 (newspaper for physicians)

NO DIFFERENCE in mortality rates from heart attacks

JAMA; Chicago; Dec 18, 2002; Curt D Furberg; Jackson T Wright Jr; Barry R Davis; Jeffrey A Cutler; et al;

The Journal of the American Medical Association, Volume: 288, Issue: 23

Conclusions Pravastatin did not reduce either all-cause mortality or CHD significantly when compared with usual care in older participants with well-controlled hypertension and moderately elevated LDL-C. The results may be due to the modest differential in total cholesterol (9.6%) and LDL-C (16.7%) between pravastatin and usual care compared with prior statin trials supporting cardiovascular disease prevention.

This study showed a slightly higher number of cancer deaths in the Prevastatin patients (163) as compared to those not taking the drug. Also, there was a higher incidence of those who came down with cancer in the statin group (but did not die from it).

Got lung cancer?

One website owner felt he got lung cancer from Lipitor and he also included a link to an AMA article showing for one thing that ALL the Statins caused cancer in the rats, even in doses similar to what is given to humans. The article writer pointed out that since there may be a span of 20 years between starting the drug and the side effect of cancer, it's hard to pinpoint it as a risk. However, the author believes the Statin medication he took was a factor in his cancer. (His website is down - he may succumbed to lung cancer.)

Notes:

1. Statins and Myoglobin (article by an MIT research scientist - well cited)
2. Stopped Our Statins website - a lot of research presented
3. Cancer.gov info website
4. Statin Induced cardiomyopathy
5. MS society studies on Zocor to suppress the immune system
6. Lipitor warnings PDF

5.5 used to be perfectly acceptable!
Off to read your bit about cholesterol being too low can cause a bleed now....new one on me!!


PS...just read your first bit...my mum's cholesterol was 3.3! As her Dr said, probably lower than jis or mine. It was a cerebral stroke that mum had, which ended up in vascular dementia.
......back to second bit wot you rote now ....

PPS...blimmey you've done your homework! Thank you coates!
Whenever I have had a client that has cholesterol problems, I always recommend lecithin.....really difficult to get from our food, but is totally naturally occurring, and seems to stabalise each individuals cholesterol to what is RIGHT FOR THEM. Something allopathic medicine seems to ignore and is ruled by so called statistics when it comes to prescribing.
I'm finding your thread both interesting and informative...thanks coates.