I don't believe in deities so that's off the menu.

I can see no reason to fully submit to another human.
Even if I fully trusted them why would I wish to burden them by having to take care of me and make determinations on my behalf?

Gilly wrote:
The sabbath silly.

Wolfy wrote:
I have been submissive in the past whilst in abusive relationships and it was horrible. I guess that part of the reason it was horrible was that i wasn't truly 'submissive, rather i was acting a role forced upon me and that the decisions made for me were in no way in my best interest at all.

I can understand why submission may be attractive to some people as it not only ensures you don't have to make decisions but negates personal responsibility as well.

From a religious perspective there does appear to be quite a few people who style themselves as being 'submissive' to their god, but it is surprising how frequently their 'gods' agenda and their own seem entirely in sync with one another.

I have read a few blogs written by 'surrendered' wives and they make me want to tear my hair out and scream. Whilst I trust Mr thoreau absolutely giving my independence up entirely to his will would drive the pair of us potty. All the stress and responsibility would be on his shoulders whilst I would feel less of a person, less of an individual and it is my belief that we would both end up resenting each other for it.

I don't belive in submission. I belive a true man/woman should walk hand in hand together, submission is not needed..

Annajn wrote:
Which hand is leading though?

oioioi wrote:
A couple that loves each other walks side by side. No need to be more submissive..

Annajn wrote:
But in the hand holding one takes a dominant roles and the other submissive.

Male hand leads...


Elder hand leads...


Female hand leads...

oioioi wrote:
Has nothing to do with size or streangt. It has everything to do with your mind and how you think.

I know.

Wolfy wrote:
We are, can and do. Daily.

In truth, we are the 'mass forces of the universe'. I believe we're in the process of remembering that currently.

I submit to the government and law makers on a daily basis like most people.

Gilly wrote:
Submission doesn't release you from the forces of the universe as such, it just makes you in tune with them.

If we believe that we can control the forces at play, then we are in fact believing that we can alter the universes path to a path that it wasn't actually going to take.

In my opinion this is delusions of grandeur.

angelchemuel wrote:
I find the bold bit interesting.

Which entity are we submitting to when we submit to ourselves?

Ab Origine wrote:
We are made of the same stuff as the universe yes.

Just like a droplet of sea water is the same as the ocean, but the Droplet doesn't think it can control the ocean.

Wolfy wrote:
Perhaps the ocean would look very different if it did. Ofc, the main difference between 'us' and a droplet of water is that we have been endowed with the capacity to discern, focus our attention and imagine. Very powerful tools indeed, whether or not we realise or even choose to use them consciously.

In short, if you believe your 'role' in this wonderful creation to be purely passive, it most surely will be just that. Perhaps the droplet of water does not share our capacity to discern that for itself either?

Ab Origine wrote:
But our power to discern, focus our intention and imagine is purely a construct of the inputs that our senses have taken in up until that point.

If you had been born in an Indian slum, then your powers would be a lot different to the ones you are endowed with now.

We have no option but to be passive, we can't control anything.

It is when we try and not be passive that we have problems, we really cant control anything.

Although the illusion makes us think that we are all powerful.

We really aren't.

@ WolfyIt depends of course what you believe the self to be...hence your question.

So to me, self is a composite of mind, body and soul/spirit/emotion. Regardless of the different aspects, I believe these three make up the self, and to be in a state of submission we have to have given our minds, body and soul/spirit/emotion complete free reign to experience completely what we have chosen to learn from.

As I said in my original post, submission to me is not handing over free will and choice to another person, it is giving oneself the opportunity to test ones own boundaries and learn more about the self.

Submission to me is a roller coaster ride.....otherwise my life would be stuck on the roundabout just going round and round. It builds trust and faith in my own judgements and decisions of the world around me. It also makes me more accepting of other people for who they are.

Submission to me, because I come from the self, makes me feel alive and life worth living.

Submission directly to another person, to me, does not even exist......that isn't even submission in my book, but I can see how the word can be equated with that.

Wolfy wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Up until quite recently, 'the illusion' has done anything but lead me to believe that I am 'all powerful'. I've spent many, many years believing the exact opposite, and I'm starting to suspect that this belief is exactly how I got where I am now. Since birth, various people and institutions have tried to hammer home just how powerless and at the mercy of the environmnent around me I actually am.

Lately however, I've begun the process of actually looking around for myself and making a conscious effort to evaluate the information that my senses are receiving. Rather than accepting other people's paradigms and views of how the world is, I am beginning to consciously make my own.

It's actually quite exciting and not as difficult as you might think. I'm spending less and less time focusing on my powerlessness and acceptance of the myriad of shitty things happening on a daily basis and more and more time watching for clues that I'm on the right path and giving my attention (emotion/energy) to those things I wish to experience more of. It really is as simple as that...for me at least.

And that's the great thing. You either agree or you don't. You have that choice...yet another wondrous facet of our existence.

For me also, it has nothing to do with trying to control everything. That's too big a task for me at present, and to my mind, would kind of take the fun out of being here at all. There are many varied subjects and issues to choose to give my attention to. I do not wish to control any aspect of the life I am experiencing. I believe where we get stuck or hung up however, is not realising that it is within our power at any given moment to direct our attention elsewhere or focus on something other than that which is making us feel so 'powerless' in the first place.

By not ackowledging that 'creative' power, if you like, you are denying yourself access to a whole host of other, more joyful experiences. If you are continually told that the world is black - and you believe it - you will just see black. Doesn't necessarily make it so. Go see for yourself. In this regard, passivity of the mind can be your worst enemy. I speak from experience.

Dear God who is me hallowed be my name. My will be done , as above so below.
If you ever heard anything similar it was probably stolen from me.
Time crimes..maybe.

Is letting another person take your love-nuts into their mouth a form of submission?