No It means you won. Ask abs. We used to be tea bag pals til he abandoned me for pastures new.

It depends of course what you believe the self to be...hence your question.

So to me, self is a composite of mind, body and soul/spirit/emotion. Regardless of the different aspects, I believe these three make up the self, and to be in a state of submission we have to have given our minds, body and soul/spirit/emotion complete free reign to experience completely what we have chosen to learn from.

Wolfy wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Up until quite recently, 'the illusion' has done anything but lead me to believe that I am 'all powerful'. I've spent many, many years believing the exact opposite, and I'm starting to suspect that this belief is exactly how I got where I am now. Since birth, various people and institutions have tried to hammer home just how powerless and at the mercy of the environmnent around me I actually am.

Lately however, I've begun the process of actually looking around for myself and making a conscious effort to evaluate the information that my senses are receiving. Rather than accepting other people's paradigms and views of how the world is, I am beginning to consciously make my own.

It's actually quite exciting and not as difficult as you might think. I'm spending less and less time focusing on my powerlessness and acceptance of the myriad of shitty things happening on a daily basis and more and more time watching for clues that I'm on the right path and giving my attention (emotion/energy) to those things I wish to experience more of. It really is as simple as that...for me at least.

And that's the great thing. You either agree or you don't. You have that choice...yet another wondrous facet of our existence.

For me also, it has nothing to do with trying to control everything. That's too big a task for me at present, and to my mind, would kind of take the fun out of being here at all. There are many varied subjects and issues to choose to give my attention to. I do not wish to control any aspect of the life I am experiencing. I believe where we get stuck or hung up however, is not realising that it is within our power at any given moment to direct our attention elsewhere or focus on something other than that which is making us feel so 'powerless' in the first place.

By not ackowledging that 'creative' power, if you like, you are denying yourself access to a whole host of other, more joyful experiences. If you are continually told that the world is black - and you believe it - you will just see black. Doesn't necessarily make it so. Go see for yourself. In this regard, passivity of the mind can be your worst enemy. I speak from experience.

Dunno about that...
I think everything/one is conscious to begin with, but humans in particular, have the capacity to push that stuff to the back of their minds and focus their attention/energy. The trick we fall into is focusing mainly on the external and ignoring the internal, which is always there, eager to communicate and make life a little more enjoyable. We're taught from birth to ignore it...and we do that pretty well for the most part.

So, it's less about 'becoming' conscious....more 'remembering'.

I mean remembering to listen to those internal bells and whistles that many of us are told to forget or ignore.

The external is what we came for, but the internal is as important and if ignored, can lead you down some very dark rabbit-holes, in my experience.

By internal, I mean things like gut-feeling, intuition, contemplation...that kind of thing. It's all very well bombing the couch and numbing your brain with TV to unwind, but that time could also be usefully spent "finding your center" (I know, I know...it sounds a bit hippyish), but just generally communicating with your 'self'.

It's only very recently I have started to do so. There is quite a clear definition between the chatter of your mind and those pearls of wisdom that derive from within, or 'souce', if you like. You will know them by how they make you feel. It's difficult to put into words, but I've not been doing it long/for a long time.

For example...when you contemplate a situation or external issue that makes you feel shitty, that shitty feeling is a communication direct from your greater being. Evaluate that emotion, mull it over for a bit. I have found that you really can pull yourself out of a pit of despair when you have to by deconstructing these bits and pieces. You don't require therapy, or counselling or anything external of yourself. I thought exactly the opposite for many years, but I'm starting to realise I was very, very wrong.

Don't misunderstand me though. Counselling can work inasmuch as it may direct you to this point for yourself. The rest of the 'magic' happens within though, imo, at least. The first step is re-familiarising yourself with 'you'. That quiet, patient voice within that has always and will always be there.

Yeah...my latest 'splurge' doesn't have a great deal to do with 'submission', in all honesty. I just seem to be having trouble keeping it all in so it erupts into various posts and topics.

Then, as an individual, why exist at all?
Why make a decision, ever?
What satisfaction is to be found in submission?

I genuinely see no merits to it.

Then, as an individual, why exist at all?
Why make a decision, ever?
What satisfaction is to be found in submission?

I genuinely see no merits to it.

feather wrote:
You're my kind of stubborn, cantankerous git, Feather.

I.e. Your sentiments reflect mine.

I disagree.

The mind 'making itself important' is a daft concept, imo - the self is pretty important. Without 'me', I wouldn't exist, would I. But since I do, then I take responsibility for my own choices. That's not to say there's no compromise or sacrifice, but that's not the same as succumbing to someone else's will.

Sorry? Of course I would what?

Imagine a person after a car accident who acquires full permanent amnesia.

The entity/personality that was their before is gone, but the self still exists.