Kalki Vishnu wrote:
You keep ignoring my key points, but I'll keep responding to you.

GOD IS ALL POWERFUL
GOD IS ALL KNOWING
GOD IS ALL LOVING

If God loves us in-spite of the failings that he himself gave us, why send us to hell? You claim that he wants us to go to heaven and there's nothing that he can do. Of course there is. He's all powerful, he has chosen to make the rules that decided if we take advantage of the rights he has given us, in some of those circumstances he's gonna send us to a place full of fire where we will be tortured until the end of time, yet, he loves us.

Course he does.

Why doesn't he just accept the experiences some chose and send everyone to heaven?

You know, if you manufacture a situation that leads someone to make a choice you know they were going to make, that's called entrapment.

Are you telling me the all powerful practices entrapment?

How is that free will? You're also saying he keeps adding in "divine intervention" to steer us to make certain decisions. How is that free will?

Kalki Vishnu wrote:
Except those that have just been born/are a couple of years old, obviously.

As for blaming God as an enemy, I don't. I accept 'it' as a part of myself and everything around me. In truth, I know there are no enemies, no right, no wrong, not even an up and down in any real terms.

Verlander wrote:
Excellent point.

Funny how we struggle to adopt that concept about ourselves though, eh? Its almost as if...we desire something external of ourselves to tell us what to do and how to live, rather than look within ourselves to find the answers we were seeking were there all along.

Kalki Vishnu wrote:
Who's blaming God? I'm not blaming him for anything, he on the other hand has much blame for the ones he loves, ignoring the fact that he is imposing such consequences of actions directly attributable to him.

God is all loving but also he is righteous. How many people love another but do things because they must be done?
Evil is evil and rebellion is rebellion, he loves you but if you go against him, if you break the divine laws, he has to do what must be done, such is the laws of the universe he created. Evil has no place in the kingdom of Heaven or the new Earth which is Eden reborn.
If all the evil and unrighteous people were allowed into the new kingdom alongside everyone else it would just once again degenerate into how the world is right now. Do you not see? we WERE in paradise and fell because of evil and rebellion. It started with Satans rebellion and fall, he was cast out and will never return. In the end, humans will also be cast out. By the time paradise is re-instated all the evil will be cast out and the saved will be free of that because those saved were the ones who through all the bad and darkness still believed and strived to be with God. Such people will unlikely rebel against God when they are in paradise because even in the clutches of the fallen Earth and sinful Earth they believed.

Nope, I don't see and fear I never will. It has been very interesting talking to you though.

It's funny how all the new age stuff basically says "dont worry, you can do anything you want, the universe is a free for all".
Monotheistic religion tells you that sin is ignoring and going against divine laws that keep you on the path of goodness.

The new age doctrine is basically saying the complete opposite, ignoring the fact that having no worries about doing whatever you want is responsible for the degradation of society and the poisoning of peoples very souls.

Kalki Vishnu wrote:
Why then, the need for forgiveness?

Apparently, you can be as evil as you want provided you repent. What's the point? Do you not think that those who repent will not slip back into their own ways when they're in the promised land?

Surely God, being all-knowing, already knows this.

But like I have said so many times before, its by-the-by.

The Icke forum did me a favour banning me cos it made me change direction in my research and I've now looked in places I never would have before lol.

SilvaRizla wrote:
In the new kingdom we are reborn in the spirit and be living in paradise whilst holding the memories of a world past. Those who repent see and acknowledge their sinful nature, those unsaved do not even see that it's sinful, they just do what they want and enjoy it. Therefore the saved in this new kingdom of perfection will feel no desire to sin and there will be nobody there to temp them to.

Kalki Vishnu wrote:
That's not true, you are responsible for your actions in this life. Why a divine being would punish you in the next is beyond me. Its not like you can learn your lesson now is it? Whats the point? Seems like a whole lot of wasted space and energy to me.

Sorry Kalki, I just don't buy it. To say the story is full of holes is an understatement and that's disregarding the fact that his existence is not verifiable.

Everything in life is a lesson and we can utilise those lessons to either become hateful and resentful or grow us and develop us to seek out God and purge ourselves, rebirth ourselves in spirit.

SilvaRizla wrote:
I used to be like you, seriously I did, then I looked into things more deeply and my thoughts and opinions changed. Wasn't a quick thing either, I've been struggling for a while going here there and everywhere in confusion.
Anyway, I'm not going to say I can prove things to you or personally change your mind because I'm not that good at explaining things, but it's been nice discussing it.

Just look at the world. A world devoid of God and his laws.
Yes God has tried to step in from time to time but he's not actually been in control, he's not been here on Earth "ruling". As a result our civilisation is in the terrible state it is. Not only that, we're heading for a totalitarian uber controlling new world order which were there no end time we'd possibly never get out of it. This is what has happened to us for falling away from God and the laws.
A free for all universe, a universe of do what thou wilt only ends with one outcome and the Earth right now is a prime example of that downfall into pain depression and suffering.
In paradise it was paradise for a reason, God walked with us and gave us laws and watched over us because as creator he was full aware of all things. We pushed him away and with that we inherited a God devoid world where we had to figure out how to rule over ourselves, the result has been evil selfish kings and warlords etc etc.
Without God we can never attain any form of heaven or paradise here on Earth, it's impossible. We are imperfect here.
The new age doctrine is false and only ensures to continue a society of degradation.

Despite appearances...there is absolutely nothing wrong with the world. Never has been, either. Its all just as it was supposed to be, and ever will it be so.

The trap we fall into - and the DIF is a good example of this, in fact - is always focusing on those things about the world that we don't like. All the while, we're doing this, we're missing so many spectactular and wonderful other aspects of our physical lives. Don't misunderstand me. I do think we're reaching a tipping point in evolutionary (spiritual) terms, collectively, that is. The internet has made it easier than ever for us to focus on and pick over the fine details of every shit thing that happens in our here and now.

I view this as a good thing. The presence of the internet itself means that we have finally woken up to something. Perhaps it will take so much exposure to all the naff things about life on this planet, but more importantly, ourselves, for us to make any kind of progress, and we've realised that?

Lately for example, I am of the belief that the external is always, always, always, a reflection of the internal, be that collectively or individually. Although the universe at large does and always has/will, effectively what the internet is doing is enforcing that and holding a big mirror up to what we are and what we do. Ultimately, and I sincerely believe we will reach this point, we will realise that nobody (no entity) other than us can change things.

Look around you. Don't like what you see? Change it, or go and do something else. Whatever you do though, stop watching it, reading about it and thinking about it every waking hour. You know what focusing on crap gets you? More crap. Why not try focusing on solutions, instead? You've done the really difficult bit by asking questions and watching for the answers and most importantly, by beginning to notice the world around you. It really is that way by design and through nobodies fault but our own. And whatever you do, remember change - as with everything else - comes from within. No amount of fist-clenching and gritting of teeth will get things done.

As ever, you only have to look in the mirror - or rather, the world around you/your own physical state - to see that in action. No-body told me this either, before you suggest I've been brainwashed or something. I've seen it with me own peepers.

It's really rather marvellous, in fact.

Oh I don't pretend that the Earth doesn't have it's beauty and doesn't have the potential to be a beautiful place, if we all really did change we could get very close to a eutopia (utopia) but it would still be but a 'fallen' one and negativity would still exist within it. It would not be ultimate paradise it could be.
How many people have had NDE's and come back saying they witnessed a place so incredible far more beautiful and vobrant and paradisaical then what it could ever be like down here? many have done that. In our fallen state everything falls short of perfection and we can attain perfection by finding God.
That's my opinion anyway.

I thank you for your opinion, and it is very much valued here. We like stuff like opinions.

The real issue I think I have with what you are saying and with some faiths in general, is simply that we have to be 'fallen' and consequently, saved.

I would argue - mainly because I'm a cantankerous bastard - that nobody can do that but ourselves.

I've noticed though that the other great thing about being here (not just this forum, but life in general) is that we can and I believe, are supposed to have varied and differing opinions and interests. It would be pretty boring (though some might think of it as 'heavenly' ) if we all believed in and thought the same thing, I reckon.

Whatever and wherever 'God' is, I am of the opinion it is doing a pretty amazing job.

Ab Origine wrote:
When the Babylonians tried to build the tower of babel they were uniting as one people, one government, one society, one religion one everything etc etc and God knew that doing that was not wise, by doing that all power gets centrally focused and corruption would set in and have no opposite. It wold have been a world order way back in the day and we all know how bad that could be, therefore God spread them out around the world as he told them to do in the very beginning. He wanted many different nations and peoples and cultures. He is wise indeed.

Ab Origine wrote:
So you believe in God, but do not believe in right or wrong? You clearly believe in truth, because you held up your own opinion, that "I know there are no enemies" as truth. Which other of God's supposed attributes do you believe or not believe in? Do you "know" that God is or is not omnipresent as you know that there is no right or wrong?

Are you a nihilist, a satanist or possibly a communist? All these types of people believe there is no such thing as right and wrong. Richard Dawkins believes there is no right or wrong. Clearly he is an atheist, so I find it unusual that you believe in God (even though you discard some of God's key attributes.

I am not saying you are wrong, but I find your philosophy inconsistent.

The supposed objectivity of moral values is always high on the list of reasons why God is said to exist.